Bad milling

[JohnSR]

My neighbor dropped a tree this past summer and being I don't mill for others, had someone in the local area mill it for him for fifty percent of the lumber. This is what he got back. 400 board feet all looked like this. Now I feel bad and guess I'll mill his next tree. Don't know the guy who did this or which mill he is using but think he should do something about that blade.

[beenthere]

Interesting.  Hopefully you will check it out for us and let us in on the type of mill and how that sawing pattern was created.
Will you do that?

[AdamT]

Wow... That is rough sawn lumber! But it does have a rather unique look to it. Someone with a creative eye can certainly use it to their advantage as is...

[ladylake]

 
Time to stop and figure out what's going on. The only time I got a few boards like that was when sawing basswood and the chute got clogged and sawdust built up on the guide rollers.  The sawdust chute got made bigger soon after that.   Steve

[ladylake]

Interesting.  Hopefully you will check it out for us and let us in on the type of mill and how that sawing pattern was created.
Will you do that?

I'd blame that on the operator 100% as all mills are basically the same.   Steve

[isawlogs]

         
   Now what we don't know is why he did not change this blade....  Was the log full of shrapnal, how many did he use....  many questions need be ask prior to stoning him .    ??? ???

               

[qbilder]

That's what boards look like after I hit a nail but don't change the blade.

[fuzzybear]

They look like boards that came off my chain mill when I used skip tooth chain. EXACT same pattern.  I quickly changed back to full comp chain.
FB

[JohnSR]

They look like boards that came off my chain mill when I used skip tooth chain. EXACT same pattern.  I quickly changed back to full comp chain.
FB

I was kind wondering if it could have been a chainsaw mill. Never seen any lumber off one.

[hackberry jake]

If it was a band mill I would guess he tried to set his teeth with a set of pliers.

[Ianab]

I was kind wondering if it could have been a chainsaw mill. Never seen any lumber off one.

Only if it was a seriously broken one. The Peterson and Lucas chainsaw slabbers give a finish comparable to a good band mill, and that's using a "super skip" chain with a set of cutters about every foot!!!

Not sure exactly what is wrong, but something needs replacing for sure. I'm wondering how a band that bad is actually cutting at any sensible speed.

Ian

[thecfarm]

OMG!!!!! I would save the stones and kick him in the a>>.  That is bad. Yes,we all saw bad boards at times,but 400BF????? Ten years ago I knew nothing about sawing. But I would know enough to stop sawing like that.

[Jim_Wahl]

I would think it had to be cutting at a fairly fast feed rate jut to get it to cut that rough!

[Cypressstump]

Ouch !  looks like he used alligator teeth to cut those poor boards.

[Ocklawahaboy]

My neighbor dropped a tree this past summer and being I don't mill for others, had someone in the local area mill it for him for fifty percent of the lumber.

What I'm trying to figure out is if the sawyer was keeping 50% of the lumber, he must have thought that quality was good enough for him.  I would find uses for that lumber if I sawed it but I sure wouldn't feel right giving it to a customer.

[Autocar]

Holy cow Ive been around circle mills my whole life and Ive never seen anything like that. But at the same time it's pretty cool looking  :D not sure what a fellow could do with it but the big box stores would probaly make you pay more for boards that looked like that  ;D

[T Welsh]

Wow . That would be tough on the mill, and also embarrassing if I sawed that lumber. Tim

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Actually his blade is very sharp.
This particular species is North Western Ripple Oak.
With the ripples in the wood, you can get around $5.53 to $8.76 a BF for this lumber. They use it to build Bee Hives for the exotic Ridge Bee.
In fact, back in the 1600's, this wood was used for the bottom of boots to give more traction.
It has been said this wood was also used for fish scaling and musical instruments by the Washington Redskins before the early settlers moved West.

     (if ya'll believe what I just wrote, I have some ocean front property in Nebraska for sale  :D )

[Ocklawahaboy]

Poston, what type of fish would you scale? Wood bass?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Poston, what type of fish would you scale? Wood bass?

:D Probably....that is some UG LEE boards isn't it?  :D

[Jeff]

I'm guessing the boards are thick and thin as well? I don't see how a bandsaw could cut lumber straight, if the saw was that messed up.

[Jeff]

I think he should sell it all to PostonLT40 at 3 bucks a foot, allowing him ample room to make a tidy profit from his great idea.  ;)

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

  SOLD!   If it fits....it ships.

( sorry Jeff....no pic of a mailman available  :D )

[Delawhere Jack]

I have actually seen worse than that at a hardwood retailer in PA .... but it was mahogany, and I think it was done with a pit saw in Africa.

[drobertson]

Must have been a big tree,  just awful, I just have to wonder what the friend said when he picked up his wood, very upsetting,

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I just have to wonder what the friend said when he picked up his wood.

I KNOW WHAT HE SAID AND YOU DO TOO!  :D :D :D :D :D

[WoodenHead]

That wood looks interesting!  I don't think I could duplicate that if I tried.

I know there is a segment of the population that prefers the look of lumber from a circular mill.  Perhaps they might find this even better! 

I'd say you'd have to cut that at least 1-1/2" thick to plane down to 3/4"!

[5quarter]

All I needed was the picture...my sack of stones are ready.  ;)

[WindyAcres]

Yes, that certainly looks interesting! I was wondering how I could create a pattern like that with my mill- but without getting wavy lumber of course. Any ideas? Just kind of ruin a blade on purpose (setting the teeth wrong or something?).

[ely]

something? is right. ;D

[customsawyer]

WOW! One of the things I cut for the big mill is the logs that they hit metal in. They buy the blades and I keep cutting as long as it is going strait. I have had blades that have hit over a dozen large nails but was still cutting strait so I kept going. I haven't even been able to make that pattern.
This is the kind of sawyers we need to get on this forum so we can help them not to do this anymore. ;)

[Jeff]

This is the kind of sawyers we need to get on this forum so we can help them not to do this anymore. ;)

That's a great quote there. A great example of the Forestry Forum way. I think there are places where someone would say, "Don't tell them about the forum, they make us look bad", when what Jake says, is the very finest thing that could be done, because it helps everybody.  Jake, if I had a Forestry Forum cowboy hat, it'd be yours.  ;)

[highleadtimber16]

I've found if you take some pliers and bend one or two teeth that you'll get that kind of pattern and the blade will keep going strait. I guess some people like that kind of look!

[beenthere]

What I see is a lot more than one or two band saw teeth bent.
There appears to be some serious wood removed across the width of the board and roughly 1/4 inch width to the groove (can't tell the depth). But much more than deep scratches in the wood.
I think fuzzybear had the best explanation for what I'm seeing.
Hopefully we'll get the full story of what is behind the boards.

[WindyAcres]

I've found if you take some pliers and bend one or two teeth that you'll get that kind of pattern and the blade will keep going strait. I guess some people like that kind of look!

Ok. Not sure if I will ever do it but good to know.

[t f flippo]

JohnSR,
You're on to something here.If the thickness is true,rip them up 3/4" +/- and sell them for drying stickers. Would need to be softwood/SPF

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

This is the kind of sawyers we need to get on this forum so we can help them not to do this anymore. ;)

That's a great quote there. A great example of the Forestry Forum way. I think there are places where someone would say, "Don't tell them about the forum, they make us look bad", when what Jake says, is the very finest thing that could be done, because it helps everybody.  Jake, if I had a Forestry Forum cowboy hat, it'd be yours.  ;)

I like what was said here. Jeff had a great follow up to what Jake said and Jake hit the nail on the head. Getting this guy on the Forum would be a one of the best steps this sawyer sawmill owner ever took.

However, I know some sawmill operators who just do not care. I know one who charges by the hour and makes you bring 5 gallons of gas when you come.
Some sawmills are just out for the $$$$ and don't have the love for wood / lumber.

I am not judging the sawmill operator who sawed this lumber, but ya gotta think he knows what's going on. 

[thecfarm]

I would rather see Magicman's feet than that.  : 

[JustinW_NZ]

If it was a band mill I would guess he tried to set his teeth with a set of pliers.

+1!
plus they then went really slow through the log...

[shelby78]

I can cut like that.... It's a twisted band... I'm not sure if i did it or my sharpening guy did it but in my last batch i had 2 bands that won't coil up properly. Coiled they will be about a ft high and borderline opening on there own.. When you run them on the mill you can see the band shake even at max tension. It's not really a shake but more of a twist at one spot in the band and running you can see it jumping. Hard to explain but i have done the same cut... Now i use those band only for roughing the edge of the first cuts.

To be fair i have stepped on bands sitting on the ground so there is a chance i did it myself. Once our fres ft of snow melts down a bit i could probly vidoe what it looks like.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Good point Shelby. 

[AdamT]

Everyone makes a bad board now and then. Now matter how long you've been sawing. When I hit a bad knot, or the band dips from getting dull (not as a result of foreign objects), I point it out to the customer, tell them what happened, and tell them it's a freebie. If they can make something out of it, great, if not it'll always burn.

Isawlogs made a good point early on. We only have the pictures. Perhaps it was full of tramp metal, and the sawyer discussed the outcome with the customer before the job was finished.

We all know those were bad boards, but maybe this sawyer didnt realize it??? Anyone can benefit from this forum, and we certainly all benefit from each other.  However, if this sawyer recognizes his work here, they would probably be a little less apt to join this forum and contribute/ learn...

[AdamT]

Edit: when I hit foreign material, I let the customer know too. However that particular board is not a freebie. Once I dig out the metal, and the band is still ok, I make another pass to make sure there's not more metal. It seems like nails come in pairs...

[thecfarm]

I've cut PLENTY of bad lumber. But my point is it took me about 10 years,not one hour.  : I stop real fast and find out what I am doing wrong. And if it was that bad I sure would not take half of the lumber either for pay.

[WDH]

I would rather see Magicman's feet than that.  :

That is some bad lumber for sure, but it is not that bad  :D :D :D.

[Hilltop366]

They look like boards that came off my chain mill when I used skip tooth chain. EXACT same pattern.  I quickly changed back to full comp chain.
FB

I agree.

The skiptooth chain cuts I had looked just like that when filed @ 35°, then I re-filed it to 10° better, 5° even better, 0° a little bit better again.

[mikeb1079]

i could actually see that being a byproduct of a chainsaw mill with skip tooth chisel chain.  i started out milling with a csm and always used milling chain (top plate angle 10 degrees).  one day just to experiment i used a standard full comp cross cutting chain to mill with.  got a VERY rough scalloped finish similar to that but more criss cross looking if that makes any sense.  i could see with a skip tooth pattern getting those regular deep grooves like that. 

i will say however with everything setup right on a chainsaw mill using milling chain you can get a finish that's very smooth.  maybe not bandsaw smooth but pretty close.  either way, that dude needs some forestry forum in his life!   :D :D

[Magicman]

Actually, I sawed some lumber like that last year.  I was sawing 9/4 Cypress for sub-flooring and obviously hit something, but I never knew what.  Of course, I pulled the blade and kept sawing.  When the customer saw that board, a 20' 9/4"X12" he immediately said that he would use it on his stairway because it had a "non-skid" grip.

[1woodguy]

      last fall I a guy I know purchased a bunch of lumber that wasn't quite as grooved as that , thought it was the worst I had ever seen from a bandmill

   Your picture has it beat!!!

  P.S.  he liked the look and him and his boy bought more
       They wanted real RUSTIC on exterior of cabins

[scully]

That had to be intentional ! Who would saw that like that and think they did a good job ! I have ripped boards freehand with my chainsaw and got way better results !

[5quarter]

Some of you guys need to take another look at that pic. 400BF of that. customer was charged for that. No, that fellow simply doesn't give a you-know-what. seriously, I can cut better lumber with a chainsaw...freehand. a guy like that does not want any help. he's got his beer money so what does he care?  Guys like that just burn me up.
As an aside to the OP, you really do owe your friend an apology. I don't recommend anyone anymore unless I know them or have seen their work. I have made the same mistake a couple times and felt awful on both occasions.

[Art_H]

i could actually see that being a byproduct of a chainsaw mill with skip tooth chisel chain.  i started out milling with a csm and always used milling chain (top plate angle 10 degrees).  one day just to experiment i used a standard full comp cross cutting chain to mill with.  got a VERY rough scalloped finish similar to that but more criss cross looking if that makes any sense.  i could see with a skip tooth pattern getting those regular deep grooves like that. 

i will say however with everything setup right on a chainsaw mill using milling chain you can get a finish that's very smooth.  maybe not bandsaw smooth but pretty close.  either way, that dude needs some forestry forum in his life!   :D :D

Yeah... Until he sees this thread...

There seems to be a lot of milling for half the wood kind of deals going on where I am anyway.  Never really liked the idea of that system.  I cut down a 46" Douglas Fir stump to the ground for a lady, (too rocky to excavate for the money willing to spend...) and she said the tree was milled by a neighbor for half the timber.  She pointed to a small pile of milled wood, and all I'm thinking is 46" fir stump...Where's the beef!!?

How do you even decide who gets what wood?  If you give the timber supplier all the good stuff, then you get screwed, and vice-versa. 

I prefer a system of paid labor, and a guarantee of buying x number of board feet of a certain quality from the timber after the job.  Seems to me a fair arrangement that protects both parties.

[Jemclimber]

Before I knew about the FF or had a band mill I used to mill with a homemade chainsaw mill with a 395xp and skip chain. I used skip chain (sharpened at the normal 25 degree top plate angle) because I sharpened on the mill because changing chains took more time. On my concoction I had to unclamp the bar to change a chain. That mill never produced boards with that pattern. I would think you would need a very uneven length of teeth or uneven sharpness to get a chainsaw with any top plate angle to cut like that. 



 

This miller either was dealing with a log that had lots of hardware and didn't want to ruin another blade or just didn't care.  Some people are meticulous and some people are slobs, it's just how people are. Some people want to learn and better themselves and some just want their beer money.  There is a saying that goes "How you do anything is how you do everything".  If it were me I would ask what was going on and decide whether or not to ever deal with this fellow again.

[slider]

Actually his feed rate was way slow ,look at the ridge spacing.I would say he was trying to get by with a band that was trashed on the previous job.Go ahead and stone him or send him to re- sharp rehab .

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Jake that comment is spot on there with what this place is about Mate  ;)  ;D ;D 8)  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) I have told a fair few people both here in Aust over the years and when I was in the USA to get on The Forum if they wanted to research learn or just hang out with an Awesome group of people.

Some people have been known to get by by setting bands with a Shifter/Cresent wrench when they have been in a bind and without their setter in the truck  ;) ;D I used an old handsaw setter for years it was great you could retune a band on the mill if it was playing up  ;)

Regards Chris

[Happycamper]

They would make great washboards should the automatic washer let you down.

[Tim Lea]

It would be nice to know the true story of these boards.. Like how long has this guy been sawing and what not.. And like ( Jack ) said let him or her know about the forum.. I myself have learned so much from all of you..

[two-legged-sawmill]

Shelbey 78, I believe you nailed it! The blade is sharp as it cut both boards realitively the same, the groves and ridges are slightly wider on the narrow board as it was cutting less wood than on the wider one. The patern would change quicker with a duller blade?? It might even start a new fad, like on some concrete and stone buildings have Groves!

[JohnSR]

Well guys, the neighbor came over with a pickup load of the better stuff. It looked like the picture posted just not as deep. We plan to run it through the edger and then plane it. Hope to get some stuff he can use. Lots of waves in the boards. Asked him what kind of mill the guy used and he didn't know as the logs were picked up from his property and milled someplace else.  He is supposed to get me the phone number so if he remembers will let all know. He did say the guy is new in the area.  Thought I knew all the guys with mills in the area (13 within 10 miles). Will keep an eye out for this guy.

[hackberry jake]

You could probably replicate that by setting 5 or so teeth in one direction then a raker then 5 or so the other direction. IF you wanted to duplicate this.

[customsawyer]

Jeff I don't need a hat, have lots of them, but I would like to find out what really happened.

For the record I learned that kind of teaching from our very fine Mr. Tom so he is the one that deserves the credit. ;)  I pray that I am able to help someone half as much as that man helped me. If there was a medal of honor for teaching Tom has it coming. 

[drobertson]

If that pattern could be duplicated without tearing anything up, and keep an even cut from end to end, it might make a good trailor floor?  Just saying, after reading MM's post on the ribbed cypress, I have had comments that my boards were to slick, even had one fellow say can you rough them up a bit?

[Magicman]

I have no idea what I hit to make my blade do that and did not check it to see what was wrong.  I just changed it and kept on sawing.  It was not quite as bad as that stuff pictured, but it was plenty bad.  The groves were at least 1/8" deep or more.   I have often wished that I had looked.

[LeeB]

I've gotten a similar pattern by setting every tooth and no raker with an exagerated set of about 40 thou. The boards look pretty wavy as well as having the grooves. I think maybe the operator tried sharpening and seting freehand.