Efficient Sawing?

[Ga Mtn Man]

I need some advice from you sawyers with more experience.  I'm sawing 1x6 from SYP of various diameters and I'm creating a lot of side lumber that then has to be edged, which is very time consuming.  My approach to each log is to determine the odd (1,3,5) number of 6" cants I can get so that I'm not splitting the pith between two cants.  The problem I run into is if the log is not quite large enough to get three cants then I'm forced to take only one 6 "cant right out of the center which generates a large amount of side lumber, some of it over 12" wide.  Is there a more efficient method?  Am I making too big of a deal over not splitting the pith?  Diagrams will be helpful.    

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Paul, are you trying to saw (3) 6 inch cants from a log before you start sawing boards?

Also, I may have misunderstood you the other day.....I thought you said you were sawing Poplar? 

Also, if your log will only yield (1) 6 inch cant, then you will have a few wide side boards ranging in different widths.
If you are getting some 12 inch side boards, after you edge them, you may be able to get a 6 inch and a 4 inch wide board from the 12 inch side board you just edged.
While edging, you may be able to get some stickers off of boards if the customer needs some.

[redbeard]

I think I see where your going with this, if I can get 6" can't on each side of pith I cut the side lumber off till I reach the 6" on first opening cut then flip 180 and do same on second cut then bring head down to split the log at the pith so I have two 6" cants with bark on the ends. Turn both up level or do one at a time and saw the 1x6 once I have three sides sawn I will flip again and saw the last of bark or sap wood off the can't will usually be a 6x10 or 12. Hope this makes since. Should have least amount of side lumber to edge.

[Ga Mtn Man]

David,

I misunderstood the customer when we first spoke...we sawed the poplar into wide 2" slabs and 2x4's.  Don't ask me why.  He wanted the pine sawn for the fencing rails.  What I'm looking for advice on is how to maximize the number of 1x6's that don't need edging and minimize the waste of lumber and time.  He only wants 1x6's. 

redbeard,
It is my understanding from others on the forum that splitting a log into two cants down the center is a bad idea because it leaves the pith on the edge of the boards.  Have you found this not to be the case?

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't saw on a bandmill, so maybe I'm not seeing the numbers right.   Why do you need to go with 3 6" cants?   You can get a 6" cant out of the center, but can you get a 3 x 6 (or 4x6 or whatever x 6) off of the sides instead of a 6" cant?  Then you can take those 2 3x6s and work them into 1x6 boards. 

There is more waste in that method, but, if I'm reading it right, you don't have much of a market for the side lumber. 

I'm not good at making diagrams. 

[Ga Mtn Man]

redbeard,

After re-reading your post, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.  Do you mean you saw down to 6" from the center from each side and then split it?  Sorry, I don't mean to be dense but sometimes you have to draw me a picture.  :-\

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Good explanation RON.

Paul, sawing big logs and getting 1 x 6 lumber....you're gonna have a little edging to do. 

[Ga Mtn Man]

Ron,

I'm looking for a method that doesn't involve me unloading and re-loading heavy cants.  All of the side lumber will be sawn into 1x6 but I'm trying to minimize the amount of time-consuming edging that I have to do.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Good explanation RON.

Paul, sawing big logs and getting 1 x 6 lumber....you're gonna have a little edging to do. 

I was hoping I was missing something obvious.

[redbeard]

I gave it a shot at explaining things I confuse my self when I try to write it. I better back out of this one and be a reader. :P. I guess you will want to leave some room to eliminate total pith. Probably a 1" .  My explanation was more geared at less edging of side lumber. Piths or centers are a big concern on alot of species and not a big deal on others. Getting two parts out of a log using the pith as the dividing part you would compensate who much you want to waste in the pith area.

[Ron Wenrich]

You're looking at getting 3 6" cants of random width so you can saw you're 1x6s.  Instead of looking at the log with 6" cants, think of putting your 2 on the sides to be laying flat. 

You start out by opening to a 6" face.  Then you pull a flitch that takes you down to where you want to go on your center cant.  The thickness is irrelevant at this point, unless you want to make sure you can saw 1x6s without getting a shim cut.  This flitch will have to have the rounded edges taken off to get a 6" cant. 

You would pull a flitch off the opposite side by opening to a 6" face, and pulling a thick cut that would give your 6" piece in the center.  Again, the rounded sides are going to be edged off. 

What you're doing is taking a stack and edging before you resaw.  It saves you time, because you are edging 2, 3 or whatever the thickness in boards at one time.  It may seem like a little extra work (because it is), but you get your product quicker, since you don't want any side lumber larger than a 1x6.  You have not split the heart, and pulled as many 1x6s as you could.

[red oaks lumber]

picture the shape of a "D" make your log that shape then cut down making 2 or 3 6" cants leaving them lay on the mill just like how it looks. take your log turner and flip the "D" up, now you have 2 0r 3 6" cants ready to saw 1"boards all the way to the bed rail.
don't worry about the pith, that only affects framing lumber. then how much i still dont believe.

[hackberry jake]

Pith is a BIG problem in most hardwoods. Softwoods don't seem so picky. If you go to a box store about 90 percent of the boards seem to have the pith in them. Not all of them are centered either. They still use them for framing lumber. If you have pith in one side of a hardwood board, you will likely end up with a rainbow or two triangle shaped boards after it splits down the seam. The pith is th best part of eastern red cedar!... Most of the time. I cut cedar into 5.5" fence boards for a while. I don't think I ever made 3 different cants from one log. One or two depending on size. If it was real big I would make it 11-1/8 wide by as tall as possible, then split it into two 5.5" wide cants. A lot of the side boards could be trimmed into two boards. Those 10" wide fellas sure did bug me tho. I used large edgings as horse fence material.

[drobertson]

sawing effiently , maximizing lumber yield is a tricky matter in my book,  1 by 6's sounds like maybe a fencing project. It all depends on how straight the boards need to be, most of my experience with taking out multiple cants for maximizing a given size results in allot of edge crowned boards. some not very appealing to the eye. lots of boards!

[ladylake]

Just saw with the least edging, your going to lose part of a couple boards from the pith no matter how you saw.      Steve

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Average grade run of mill fencing and also pallet timber,dunnage ect I dont care where the heart is boxed center off center just get the log onto and  back of the mill as quick as possible  ;)

When I start centering heart into boards its when i am chasing grade bigger $$$ and the heart usually goes into pallet unless its one of those species that it behaves well  ;D 

But Ron hit it on the head again and I would do the same if your looking to minimise edging whilst centering the heart just as he said and if your dealing with stuff that springs put the bow up take your skim cut then flip it down onto the bed n board off  ;) thats why he said just go for a 6" face and dont worry what the next set is

As has been said doing that comes at the cost of recovery though  ;)

Time VS Recovery  its a constant bloody battle Mate ;)

Regards Chris

[Magicman]

When sawing that much flat lumber, plan to take 2 or 3 flitches from the center (pith) area leaving a 6" cant on each side.  These two 6" cants can be sawed together.  You can later edge the pith flitches along with any side flitches.

When sawing various sizes of framing lumber, I will often make a 4" cant in the center of the log with a 6" on each side.  Then it may be a 6" in the center with a 4" on each side.  Another possibility is one 1 5/8" flitch from the center and two 4" cants.  I just never actually split the pith when sawing SYP.

The options are unlimited based on the log and the desired finished product.

[Bibbyman]

We usually have enough log inventory to match log size to lumber needed.  We'll use logs about 12" diameter to make 6" wide lumber.   Bugger logs for wider stuff. 

We have little choice when sawing customer's logs to their list.

We'll avoid spitting the heart if at all possible.  When making 2x6 out of larger logs, we'll still make one 6" wide cant.   If the customer agrees we'll make some 2x8s or 2x10s out of the side boards.  Anything wider we'll split into two 2x6s.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Thanks for the help guys.  I'm still trying to figure some of it out, but that's probably the fault of my thick head and not your advise. :D   

[giant splinter]

I am with Red Oaks Lumber on this post, though many very good ideas have been shared by some of the professional sawyers on this forum I always try to accomplish things the easy way and not so much be concerned with extra lumber or odd sized boards that are not part of your project at hand. I never waste anything that comes off the mill and always find something to use it for, small projects, stickers, firewood, shredder chips and sawdust all get used up or given away to neighbors and friends who can use it.
In an effort to cut through as little bark as possible at any time or having to do a lot of edging ( I do not have an edger yet ) that takes a bunch of time so it just makes sense to size a cant to any multiple of the board widths that you can get out of it and start knocking them out.
As far as the pith is concerned just cut right through it and leave the few boards sitting on top of the banded order and thrown in as a bonus for your customer to use any way he sees fit. This works in your favor and helps when it comes to referrals more than you might think.
Almost anything you can do to make your job go faster and easier results in more "Couch Time"  ;D  . Hope this helps you out along with all the great ideas that came before mine and the ones that follow ....... this Forum is loaded with a wealth of knowledge and helpful sawyers always ready to give some of the best advise available as well as try to solve any issue that can arise and I am proud to be in the same cloud of sawdust with them.