mud saw debarker ideas

Goodndusty · February 11, 2013, 09:27:40 AM

Hey everyone! I could use some help in designing a debarker for my band mill. I have already purchased the 12v motor and now need to figure a way to mount it in a useful way to my mill. I will try post a pic here of the throat area of my mill and would sure appreciate your input in the design of the debarker mount. If you could post some pics of your setup then I could add some of those ideas into mine. Thanks for your help.
Larry

POSTON WIDEHEAD · February 11, 2013, 09:36:16 AM

Good morning Good n Dusty. I do not have any pics of my Debarker.

However 8)....I did type in DEBARKER PICS in the search box. There are a few pictures in there of Debarkers but also there is a lot of discussion on how to set one up.

Try the search box and if this does not help, we'll try to get you some better pics.

Have a great day.

David

Goodndusty · February 11, 2013, 09:52:15 AM

Thanks David. I have looked at that thread and have noted some ideas. I may have to convert my guide assembly to move back and forth by hydraulic or electric. Still pondering if I can mount it from top horizontal metal then use manual arm to put debarker into position.

york · February 11, 2013, 09:59:32 AM

Goodndusty welcome to the FF-i am also interested in building a mudsaw....

For starters look at what Cooks has,TK has one too but every TK mill i see the mudsaw is not on there mill,maybe it does not work well-i will be watching this thread and good luck..
albert

Goodndusty · February 11, 2013, 10:08:34 AM

A few problems I will encounter in this build is the manual operated move-able saw guide (It would be too hard to move the guide mount and the debarker if I should mount it to that iron.), and the need to change blades without too much effort. Another is the view area through the throat which I currently use to line the saw blade to the log. I have a scale set up at the other end of the saw and currently match the scale inches at the saw blade and the other scale and site down the log to see where the blade will run. This works pretty effectively but I fear I may have some issues after I add the debarker.

eastberkshirecustoms · February 11, 2013, 01:20:02 PM

I see that you have a Timberwolf sawmill. Here is how they attached the factory unit:

Hope this helps....

Goodndusty · February 11, 2013, 09:56:03 PM

Thanks there EBCustoms. That is a great pic but I have some more questions like how do they move it in and out? Is it a hydraulic motor? Do you have more pics? Did you find them on the web? I tried to find them but didn't find their site.

eastberkshirecustoms · February 12, 2013, 05:41:04 AM

Quote from: Goodndusty on February 11, 2013, 09:56:03 PM
Thanks there EBCustoms. That is a great pic but I have some more questions like how do they move it in and out? Is it a hydraulic motor? Do you have more pics? Did you find them on the web? I tried to find them but didn't find their site.

I believe the company is now defunct. Their web site is no longer available, though it was still up about a year ago. The debarker was moved in/out with a chain drive at the top, not sure if it was electric or hydraulic, though no reason it couldn't be either. I'm sorry I don't have any more pic's of the Timberwolf debarker. I did borrow design cues from their design when fabricating mine. Heres a photo:

Goodndusty · February 12, 2013, 08:45:31 AM

Thanks EB for sharing your build. If I may ask a few questions about it?
1. I see that you modified the top horizontal arm by adding an adjustment linkage. (Looks like a threaded rod) I couldn't quite make it out in the pic. In the TW design was that a spring loaded affair at that joint? I was wondering about that.
2. You used an electric motor instead of a hydraulic one. How did that turn out?
3. TW had a pretty elaborate guide on the debarker saw and there is none on yours at this point. Did you add one later?
4. How does the chain saw tooth blade work? I have a whole bunch of questions about that one!
5. You have a couple of springs on the saw head. Was that pretty effective? Did you have to modify that area of the build?
May I add that your work is very professional. I'm afraid that mine won't look as nice. :( but I enjoy building stuff. If you have more pics of your build I would sure like to see them. Thanks again for your help in sharing your ideas.
Larry

eastberkshirecustoms · February 18, 2013, 02:34:08 PM

Sorry I haven't replied earlier. I'm just super busy right now. The reason for the linkage is to arc the debarker head in to the log faster, and closer to the band, for a couple reasons. (1) To allow for maximum log length. (2) The mill is being set up as 'clean side cut' so the log is resting at the 'far side' of the bed (if that makes sense).
I do have many more photos. I was documenting my entire build on DIYbandmill.com, but the site has been down for quite some time now. I had many of the pic's in my gallery, but they got inadvertently deleted and I haven't had the time to reload them all.
I'll send you a PM. I don't want to hijack your thread.

Goodndusty · February 19, 2013, 11:24:53 AM

Thanks Al for your input. Looking forward to any pics you can put up and don't anyone be afraid to "hyjack" my thread. It is for everyone's use and the more info the better for those like me that need to be steered in the right direction.

Goodndusty · March 03, 2013, 08:48:01 PM

Just a note about the motor that I had purchased as suggested on another debarker thread. I'm not sure if this motor will work for a vertical installation. I turned it while vertical with shaft down and it made a grinding noise so I took the back and front off and noticed that there are not bearings just bushings and there is only a washer that separates the armature from the end housing. In the vertical position the washer rubs on the housing. I think I will have to mount the motor horizontally and use a belt and pulley system to turn the debarker blade. :'(12V Ramsey Winch Motor Bi-Directional HD MBJ4407

Goodndusty · March 07, 2013, 10:09:14 AM

I have decided to go with a pulley and belt system to drive my stacked blade mud saw. I tried to manufacture a coupling to go from the motor shaft to the mud saw shaft along with a bearing near the saw to help stabilize but something went wrong and there was too much bend in the resulting joint. I couldn't see this working long with that wobble even with the bearing so am going with the pulley and belt. I want to mount the motor vertically but I feel that I need to take the weight off the armature so that it doesn't rub on the housing. Does anyone have an idea on what I could use to put under the end of the shaft that would shim the shaft up a little and take the load off the housing? A hardwood shim that I could oil? Maybe would heat up the armature? Some kind of bearing? Ideas?
Thanks Jeff for your explanation and videos on how to set up the photo gallery. I had some pics in there and nobody could see them. I will be able to load more pics now as I progress with my build. Thanks all.

Slab Slicer · March 07, 2013, 10:18:12 AM

Not sure how much room you have to work with inside the motor, but a plane bearing may work for you. Like I said, I'm not sure of the space you're trying to fill with it. Just a thought.

Goodndusty · March 07, 2013, 10:22:08 AM

A plane bearing? Not sure what that is? Thanks Chuck.

Goodndusty · March 07, 2013, 10:40:30 AM

Sorry Chuck! I guess I should answer your question.
I would have an inch or more if be needed and seeing that the motor is away from the saw I guess I could make it what it would need. The bearing would have to be something that would just be at the end of the shaft because there would be not much motor shaft left once the pulley is installed.

Slab Slicer · March 07, 2013, 10:43:04 AM

I think I mispelled the word. Plain bearing is what I was after. :-[ They can be very thin, and would replace your washer. Not sure if it would last in this application.

Slab Slicer · March 07, 2013, 10:46:58 AM

Possibly referred to as a Thrust Bearing.

redbeard · March 07, 2013, 02:23:48 PM

some pics of TK debarked they use the belt n pulley set up. I have my belt a little loose so it will slip if it gets in a bind saves the motor life. The swing is controlled with a screen door closer ( cheap but works good) and a long latching rod with collets that hold it closed.

Goodndusty · March 07, 2013, 09:21:20 PM

There you go! A thrust bearing looks like something I will check into. Thanks for the idea.
Thanks Redbeard for the pics. That is actually close to what I am shooting for.
I did manage to work on the build a little today and here is what I have come up with so far. Pretty similar to Reds pic with a few variations. I intend to install a hanger under the main cross member for the motor with a pivot point to allow me to swing the saw into position from the operator side of the band blade. We will see what I come up with after it is all said and done. What fun!!

Goodndusty · March 07, 2013, 09:30:42 PM

Here are the pics.https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4823&pid=132002#top_display_mediahttp://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=31742&pid=132004#top_display_mediahttp://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=31742&pid=132003#top_display_media

Goodndusty · March 08, 2013, 08:39:01 AM

Just a thought I had in the middle of the night when I should have been sleeping.
I wonder if I would turn the motor a little as cue in such a way so that the pulley would run on a very slight angle to the other pulley and cause the shaft to be pulled upward and thus take the weight off the armature and eliminate the need for a thrust bearing? Thoughts?

Goodndusty · March 11, 2013, 10:08:47 PM

Hopefully these pics will appear in my post. Takes some people longer than others!! ;D
I did some more work on the build and is coming together little at a time. Big thing to note on these pics is the green hanger which will be welded under the cross member that supports the motor and is just above the band blade. This is the pivot point of the build to get the saw assembly close to the lob. The end of the 2x2 will slide back and forth on a support that can be adjusted up and down to get the mud saw tracking in the right place. There will be another place to adjust the saw on the saw assembly pivot which is painted red.
The idea of angling the motor slightly and also down slightly seem to produce the desired affect of taking the weight off the armature. I will know more on further testing after the install.
Next have to work on a way to get the saw head to move toward the log as the arm swings in. I expect to use a spring loaded rod. I will post more pics as I progress.

Goodndusty · March 24, 2013, 11:18:23 AM

Well between the cold and the snow I was able to get the debark-er finished up and will post the pics here. This is the initial first trial run and still needs a little adjusting and tweaking. Here are a few notes on the build. Beside the painting I need to adjust the saw height just a tad. No problem, I just need to add or remove washers under the vertical post. The stacked blade is made of 4 similar carbide scale saw blades that I have positioned with the teeth just slightly off point from each other. I am going to experiment with this to see what works best. Seems to cut alright like this. We will see. In another thread it was suggested that the blade run opposite to what I have on mine. The motor is reversible but I only had a right hand thread maker when I made the saw shaft so I can only run it in this direction at present time. If this gives a problem I will have to get a shaft made with left hand thread and turn the blades over or get a different saw head. The switch is an old dimer switch that was in the shop so I used it. I used only metal and items from the shop because I am a long way from a hardware store and there is 3 feet of snow on the scrap pile. ;D Happened to have a few old cultivator springs handy so used them on the control rod. The handle next to the switch is what I use to move the saw in and out of position. Some day I will have the saw move in and out by hydraulics.