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F250 question

Started by Ken, February 10, 2013, 05:33:47 AM

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Ken

I have a 92 f F250 with a 7.3l diesel that I bought last year for a woods road plow truck.  The truck is very hard to get started.  After it starts it will restart every time but the initial start is a real challenge.  It has new batteries and I even put an external fuel pump on bypassing the pump from the tank.  Still no luck.  Glow plugs are working.  Any suggestions?
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rick f

Mine was doing that , I changed fuel filters. That helped out alot.
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coxy

i have a 96 i thought the glow plugs where working   but there was 4 that wernt fixed them now it will start at - 10 with out plugging it in  there is all so a silanoid that works the glow plugs that will give you greff will work then wont work good luck

sprucebunny

Check or replace glow plugs.

In the meantime, allow glow plugs to heat up. Shut key off. Wait a minute and do it again before trying to start.

If it's running very rough when it does start, you may have a fuel leak. Usually it's the return lines.
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timberlinetree

You can test the glow plugs with a simple test light. Clip one end of test light on positive side of battery and the other to the top of the glow plug. If light lights up, the glow plug is good, if not, then glow plug is bad. Just because they are new, doesn't always mean they are good... Factories do make mistakes sometimes! One bad glow plug can mess it up for all of them! Good luck and don't worry... spring will be here soon :)
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justallan1

I vote the glow plugs also, and possibly the glow plug relay(solenoid?).
You will find the relay right on top of the engine next to your fuel filter. With the key on it has a 30 second timer and you can check to make sure you have power on both of the larger wires. After the 30 seconds, you will lose power to one of them.
I don't recall if you can get to the glow plugs on a '92 real easy to check them or not. If you can just check for continuity from where the wire goes on to the glow plug and the block.
Folks like to ether these and it fries the glow plugs.

Oops, sorry timberlinetree. You answered while I was typing. I like your test better, alot easier.

chevytaHOE5674

I have an IDI like your 92 has. Sounds like a classic case of air intrusion into the fuel system. There are little plastic return line caps on top of each injector, over time they and the o-rings below them shrink and crack and causing air to get into the fuel system. Track down a new return line kit with new plastic T's, o-rings, and hoses (usually run about 30-40 bucks). Take your time installing them making sure to lube the o-rings so you don't cut them.

If you replace the glow plugs make sure to only use Beru/Motorcraft ZD9's. Most other brands will swell and then you will be unable to remove them later on.

Stephen Alford

  Hey Ken , just a couple of thoughts .  If it turns out to be glow plugs snappin them when changing them is pretty easy, at least for me.
  :(

 
When they don't work they will form a carbon knob on the end. Spray a mix if carb cleaner and the stuff for cleaning tires, not excessive just a tad.  Take a grinder with a cutting wheel and cut a bit of a notch length wise in your needle nose vise grips. Then just tap the vise grips. When it comes out just turn it over a couple of times. Not trying to bore you but if it happens it is good not to have to pull the head.   :)
   Back to the starting issue I am a huge fan of warm air. Just pop the top of the air breather off and use a heat gun to put warm air into the turbo.  Just into the breather is not enough.  Good luck.

 
logon

Bobus2003

The Ford IDI's are known for their issues.. Does it smoke any when cranking first thing in the Morning or r does it take a bit of cranking to get it to smoke? The IDI's are Notorious for having air leaks at the Injector Pump to Filter Return line (I have just gotton rid of this line on all my trucks) and the Injector Return Caps are also a place known for the leak.. and its the O-Rings underneath that go to crap.. A kit can be bought for 30 bucks to to fix this (New caps, O-Rings, and Return Lines). If its smoking from the get-go.. I'd say new Glow-Plugs and Controller.. One most of my IDI's I don't waste the time with fixing Glow Plugs cause they tend to go through them so mine are all Ether Aided now..

Al_Smith

Well you get a hold of a 20 plus year old diesel pick up cheap enough to beat it around as a woods truck it stands to reason it could already have a couple hundred thousand miles on it .

A diesel will run almost forever but once the rings get to bypasing and the compression drops off they don't want to start so good any more glow plugs or no .

thenorthman

got a 90 with the same problem, its the glow plugs...  currently have autolights in mine when i get time and money I will be swapping them out to bosch, they cost more but from everything I've read work better and longer.

Also it could be the glow plug contol, testing it is like testing the plugs, but you stick the test light between the wire and the plug, if she lights up the controller is working.

What ever you do DO NOT use starting fluid, unless you know for a fact the glow plugs are not working at all, you could pop the prechambers right out of the head, and destroy yer engine.  If in fact the glow plugs are not working spray starting fluid into the air cleaner while turning it over.  BUT ONLY IF THE GLOW PLUGS ARE NOT WORKING...
well that didn't work

thenorthman

After rereading yer post...  The GLOW PLUGS light on the dash will come on making you think that the glow plugs work... but in reality that's just the relay telling the glow plugs to work, kinda like telling most kids to clean their rooms, they heard ya, their in there room, but nothings happening...

Also mine has the mechanical fuel pump on the side of the engine bellow the alternator, kinda sorta behind the vacuum pump... 92's maybe a little different but seems like they would still have the mechanical pump...
well that didn't work

chevytaHOE5674

For more 6.9/7.3L ford IDI information than you ever care to know go over to oilburners.net.

flyboy16101

My one buddy had a similar problem with his 6.5L chevy, so what we did was install a by pass for the relay. Mounted a push button on the dash (one that you have to hold in to complete the circut) conceted that to a starter solinoide used 6 ga. wire to go from the glow plug relay to the new solinoide back to the other post on the relay. Now when its cold out he just holds the button in for about 15 seconds and it warms the glow plugs. the way we wired it the factory relay will still warm them when you turn the key in case some one is driving it that dont know about the switch. The only problem with this is if you hold the button on for too long or have one that you would have to push to disconnect you could burn up the glow plugs. Hope this helps.
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Al_Smith

I have no idea if that Ford has a set of block heaters but if it does it should certainly help if they work .

My bud the tree trimmer has an International chassis with a hi- ranger lift .I don't think it even has a set of glow plugs . He just plugs it in at least 8 hours before he needs it and it fires up like it were summer time .

sprucebunny

I've replaced the return lines and caps in my '90 3 times and the O rings another time... very frustrating. I want to find tiny screw type hose clamps instead of the stupid spring  ones.

The lines have to be just the right length so there is no side pressure on them.
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thenorthman

Quote from: flyboy16101 on February 10, 2013, 03:24:05 PM
My one buddy had a similar problem with his 6.5L chevy, so what we did was install a by pass for the relay. Mounted a push button on the dash (one that you have to hold in to complete the circut) conceted that to a starter solinoide used 6 ga. wire to go from the glow plug relay to the new solinoide back to the other post on the relay. Now when its cold out he just holds the button in for about 15 seconds and it warms the glow plugs. the way we wired it the factory relay will still warm them when you turn the key in case some one is driving it that dont know about the switch. The only problem with this is if you hold the button on for too long or have one that you would have to push to disconnect you could burn up the glow plugs. Hope this helps.

This is a bad Idea, the fords glow plugs run on 6 volts (tis strange but so is ford) if you run straight to 12 volts you'll burn the control and yer plugs up within a few minutes.

This Idea can and does work on most rigs (got an 84 volvo thats wired like this) but you will have to figure a way to convert it to 6 to work on the ford.
well that didn't work

Bobus2003

Quote from: thenorthman on February 10, 2013, 07:32:15 PM

This is a bad Idea, the fords glow plugs run on 6 volts (tis strange but so is ford) if you run straight to 12 volts you'll burn the control and yer plugs up within a few minutes.

This Idea can and does work on most rigs (got an 84 volvo thats wired like this) but you will have to figure a way to convert it to 6 to work on the ford.

Cant say ive ever heard of the Fords running 6 volts to the Glow-Plug Controller.. I know of and have done many myself running a wire to a Momentary switch on the dash (As is the setup in my '84) and not having any issue.. But hey to each there own...

oldseabee

I've got a '99 F250 with the block heater, I plug it in a couple of hours before start up and still use the glow plugs, it fires right up, the colder it is the longer I leave it plugged in. I don't know how much the block heater kit is but in a cold climate I would spend the money. Cold cranking will dump unburned fuel into the cylinders and could wash the oil film off the cylinders and give you premature wear.

flyboy16101

Quote from: thenorthman on February 10, 2013, 07:32:15 PM

This is a bad Idea, the fords glow plugs run on 6 volts (tis strange but so is ford) if you run straight to 12 volts you'll burn the control and yer plugs up within a few minutes.

This Idea can and does work on most rigs (got an 84 volvo thats wired like this) but you will have to figure a way to convert it to 6 to work on the ford.

I had never heard about the 6 volt glow plugs on the fords glad you brought this up. We were getting ready to put one on my 97' f250 this week sometime guess i'll have to get the voltage tester out and maybe do some farmering on it.
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thenorthman

Quote from: Bobus2003 on February 10, 2013, 10:06:23 PM
Cant say ive ever heard of the Fords running 6 volts to the Glow-Plug Controller.. I know of and have done many myself running a wire to a Momentary switch on the dash (As is the setup in my '84) and not having any issue.. But hey to each there own...

Coming from a person who pulls the fuel return line and then complains about fuel leaks at the injectors I'll take this with a grain of salt...

As for all the ford diesels being 6 volt to the glow plugs I can only vouch for the 7.3 idi's the power chokes and 6.9 idi may be different, read a maintainence manual
well that didn't work

Ken

Thanks for the replies.  The block heater seems to be working and we checked the 3 glow plugs that were easy to test and they seemed to work.  I will replace the injector return caps to see if that helps.

Now off to fix an electrical issue with the harvester.   I am beginning to despise cold weather.

Cheers
Ken
Lots of toys for working in the bush

oldseabee

You can check the block heater with an ohmeter across the plug contacts. Should have a resistance reading, not sure what it is exactly. No reading, the block heater has an open circuit or there is a broken wire to it. A short would trip your breaker or burn up the wires.

s grinder

Ken my friend had the same problem,told me he'd just put glow plugs in last year,had no juice to the glow plugs,replaced the controller $130.00 from NAPA,now we had juice on test light but only for 5 seconds,should light up for 20 to 30 seconds when cold.You don't have to remove glow plugs to test them,just remove the leads to them,hook up a volt meter on OHLM setting put red on top of plug and ground on block or negative on battery terminal,should have no more than 2 ohlms my friend had 2 with a [OL open circuit shorted out reading] replaced those with 2 from NAPA for $8.00 a piece ,been running like a charm for the last month.Like other guys said a heat gun in the intake will ,have heard of by passing the controller i personally wouldn't do it.The controller looks for resistance ,when glow plugs warm up they create resistance shorting the cycle time,with a bad glow plug or plugs it fools the controller shorting the cycle time. Hope this helps

Cypressstump

How cold is it?

There's a fuel bowel heater element that's really only required down in the teens on a healthy motor. They do come in handy on very cold days. The element also will tend to burn out,  causing the number 30 fuse under the dash to blow, but not always.If that fuse blows, the motor will not fire off as the same fuse controls the PCM. Normally those elements go bad at the first hint of cold weather as they are submerged in fuel all summer, rotting, and the first time it's needed is when the temps drop.

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