Note to employees don,t mess with the sawyer

[just_sawing]

Have a young man working for me who is a little bit of a hard head. He started to trim a tie leaving a large split instead of a $22.50 it would have been $3.00 as a reject. I stopped the saw and got in his face to pay attention. He decided to do a slow walk, bad choice. The mill started to go faster with no breaks and dinner was delayed. About the time his tougue hit the floor the attitude changed.
He is a good guy but I reget that most young employees think their job has no responsibility to think.

[hamish]

Have a young man.

I stopped the saw and got in his face to pay attention. He decided to do a slow walk, bad choice. The mill started to go faster with no breaks and dinner was delayed. About the time his tougue hit the floor the attitude changed.

He is a good guy but I reget that most young employees think their job has no responsibility to think.

People learn and interpret things in different ways.  Be it audio, visual or hands on and a combination of them.
Regardless of ones age, "your young man could have 4 or 70".
There are many ways to teach others and many ways to gain others respect.
Consider he perhaps has never been given the chance to think on his own.
The problem is not with todays kids, its with todays parents and grandparents.  Kids are kids always will be.
Lack of training and mutual respect can lead to many things.

Everybody can learn from each other.

Most of my employees are over 60, they have there faults and have forgotten alot, as do the few younger ones I have.

[dgdrls]

"(On being in a position of leadership) Even if it's your dog, you've got authority over somebody. Start treating him better."
― Joyce Meyer

DGDrls

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Please disregard my application. 

[JSwigga]

after multiple offenses, getting in his face maybe warranted.  If he is just young and unexperienced you should teach him, not punish him. 

[hackberry jake]

When I started working at a sawmill at age 18 I got a royal butt chewin for putting a #1 red oak board in the 3b stack. I had only been there about a month and I had stacked slabs the whole time. The day I messed up the lumber grader called in sick so they put me doing both jobs. I don't think I deserved the lecture I got but I took it because I had to. To this day I still think it was too doughdy (is that how you spell it?). Sometimes young men need time to learn.

[captain_crunch]

With a Temper like I have I have to be careful Have noted if you get on some people it rattles them to where they cant grap their b##t with both hands rest of day. Guess without being there proably should keep quiet. I know some one yelling at me just seems to make things worse : :

[pyrocasto]

From a guy who has a couple dozen employees, I feel your pain. I have 2 guys that go fast all the time, never pay attention, and cost me redos and money. Have another guy that goes pretty slow most times and still never pays attention, costing me redos and money.  ??? I've found some people and some things you can teach, and sometimes you just cant drive it into their head enough. Whether or not they just dont get it, or just dont care, it still ends up with a business man busting their but a little longer to pay for it.

Hopefully your helper will catch on better and care some, but people that have a brain and care are hard to find now days.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

I was gonna let this one go by, but I had too many thoughts run'n through my head about it.  As a former Marine, I guess now I'm kinda immune when someone starts a yelling about something, and tries to get in my face, (deserving or not.)  As a teacher and professional leadership development facilitator, I have learned to identify certain characteristics in members of a team, even if it is a small saw operation. Seldom, unless safety and life is at risk, is it fruitful to get loud about something.  90% of the time, they are going to "shut down," and not internalize any valuable lesson.  I must agree with Hamish, kids are kids, but parents and how folks have been raised has change, and not all for the better.

This also brings up another point that is directly tied to this.  It has been discussed much of late on the forum about hourly value, charging by the hour, value of time.  If you pay someone by the hour it often leads to stress and anxiety.  When I was very young and to this day, I'm compensated and I compensate others by what they achieve, not by some hourly wage.  I've had young fellow come to me plenty of times, hat in hand, worried I would be some kind of upset, (from their past experience with others,) because they had really messed up bad and cut a timber in the wrong locations because they hadn't been paying attention to detail.  I just smile and say, there is another timber in the pile, I guess you better get at it and pay attention this time.  Later they ask why I didn't yell at them.  I explain, it would not have done any good for you or I to get upset over something that has already happened. Second I'm not paying you by the hour I pay you by what you get right, not wrong.

There is much to be said for the old traditions both in building and in compensation.

Regards,

jay

[Okrafarmer]

I used to enjoy yelling at people, but I found no one would listen to me.

Sometimes I blow up at people, but it's getting less and less frequent. I really don't get mad when someone makes an honest mistake. It's when they don't seem to care about something that is pertinent, that's what ticks me off.

I had a company plane some lumber for me once, including a slab. They took my nice 40-50 bf slab of ambrosia maple, 3 inches thick, and planed it down to 3/4 like the rest of the lumber.  :( >:( :'( :-\ :-[ :embarassed: Oh my. When I saw it, my eyes bugged out, and I turned around and walked away. I did all my flabergasting inside. Wow was I mad. But I didn't let it out. Instead, after I had calmed down a bit, I went to the owner of the company and calmly explained what had happened. She was aghast, and apologized profusely, and wrote off the whole job for free. I let her know I appreciated that, and that I would still bring them stuff to do in the future.

I try to be calm. It is a hard thing some times. Especially for the people who just don't seem to care to learn what they need to do. For those who are honestly trying to do what's necessary, I try to be understanding and teach them.

[Satamax]

With a Temper like I have I have to be careful Have noted if you get on some people it rattles them to where they cant grap their b##t with both hands rest of day. Guess without being there proably should keep quiet. I know some one yelling at me just seems to make things worse : :

This makes me think of the french expression, "he's so dumb, he can't find his b##t, even with a map"  ;D

From a guy who has a couple dozen employees, I feel your pain. I have 2 guys that go fast all the time, never pay attention, and cost me redos and money. Have another guy that goes pretty slow most times and still never pays attention, costing me redos and money.  ??? I've found some people and some things you can teach, and sometimes you just cant drive it into their head enough. Whether or not they just dont get it, or just dont care, it still ends up with a business man busting their but a little longer to pay for it.

Hopefully your helper will catch on better and care some, but people that have a brain and care are hard to find now days.

I should admit i didn't have a brain when i was younger. Nowadays, if i employ people, and they don't work the way i want, or showed them, i dismantle what they were doing, and make them redo it, watching over their shoulders. It's very anoying for them. Good thing i'm not tied to anybody. Cos, once, twice, goodbye. Most of the time i work with a stubborn English boozer and pot smoker. But he's got so many advantages, when you know his weaknesses, that it works for me.

[Bibbyman]

I have the same problem at our mill.   My offbearer is often slow.  I'm always after her for edging too heavy.  I let it pass because I know I have to eat what she cooks for supper and then go to bed with her in the evening.

[just_sawing]

Yes I got in his face. This is after a long patient teaching on how to do the job. He has never had to take responsibility for what he does just punch the clock and do as little as he can.
He is waiting for 4pm.
He is a good kid and if I was like the other six jobs he has had I would fire him.
No if I can survive having to raise another child I will, he can be great but I take pride in the fact the when kids leave this old one horse mill they have an education that they can use. I very seldom even raise my voice in any type of anger ( have to raise my voice over the engine). I also feed them at lunch direct side jobs to them from other customers and basically teach them everything from carpentry to electronics.
When a employee just comes to the job with a I don,t give a [I have typed a profane word that is automatically changed by the forum censored words program I should know better] attitude and the grandpa soft explanation does not work it is time for the drill sergeant to kick in, there are limits. The other choice would be sent both home for the day or week. That punishes the innocent and the guilty, the way I handled it was since they are on a siding scale on wage is crank it up make a point and then at the end of the week the check is also more.

[bandmiller2]

The old guy that screws up around my mill watches me shave in the morning.Sometimes less help is more help. Frank C.

[Okrafarmer]

You must be one of those who don't grow a beard. Nobody watches me shave very often! When I do, usually my kids all come around to watch because they think it's so funny.

Oops, we have another thread about that.  :D

[bandmiller2]

Okra,had one when we took the trip to michigan, kinda wanted to blend in with the yuppers.Wife met anouther girl from the Philipines and she asked her whos that old guy with you,it was all white,that was it for the charlie wooster. Frank C.

[Tom L]

one thing that I have found with employees, some are good , some will never be

the old saying around here is "it doesn't matter how hard you polish a nickel, it will never be a quarter"

take an employee for what they are good at, let them do that, or let them find something on their own

that they are good at.(somewhere else)  sometimes someone surprises you and excels at something you think is over their head, most of time I just take them at their worth. and pay them at their worth.

[JFarmer]

I know exactly where you are coming from. I had some young men working for me and they always wanted to cut the best end off of the ties or cut them to short. It didnt make a difference how many times I told them they would do it anyway. They were just to lazy to work and just wanted a weekly check for nothing. I could use some help now but cant find any. I guess its to easy to set at home and receive a monthly check from the working people!

[ArborJake]

 I think it all depends on attitude. If someone working for you is willing and has a good attitude and tries hard you teach them and be happy with there abilities as they achieve them. You'd be a jerk to yell at that kinda guy. If they are just not capeable of the task at hand you find some other way for them to fit in or you thank them for there work and point them in another direction. If they have a bad attitude about there job you point them to the door. Pretty basic. The only other thing I try to keep in mind is that nobody is pefect. Especially me.

[tyb525]

I used to work for a contractor who was always on edge. It was my first construction job and they agreed they would teach me. Turns out they couldn't. I did the best I could but if I ever messed up I got a good chewin.

I will say it's hard to learn new skills when you're constantly getting yelled at but not taught.

But there is no excuse for an employee with a bad attitude. Either they want to work or they shouldn't be working there.

[Okrafarmer]

  The only other thing I try to keep in mind is that nobody is pefect. Especially me.

Nor me. I'm a fractured, flawed human bean'.  :-\

[drobertson]

Sorry to hear about your rough day at the mill, as with sawmills there will be rough days for sure, some folks respond well to "in the face" corrections, and others as we know do not. It is up to the coach the "boss" to employ what he thinks is the proper method.  I pay by the bdft, "piece work" the more we do, and the price we get for it is the determining factor for all of us.  I have never been a hot head, not saying you are, stress is stress and it effects all of us differently.   I might suggest some kind of code "hand signal, to determine the proper end for what he or whoever is trimming the ties should do. this is a hard one when dealing with folks we want to train, but part of training the same. Knowing the expected finish product is a critical factor,  I also believe in cross training, and believe it promotes a kind of competive nature that makes everyone better.  Good luck, if you believe in luck,  I believe in being prepared, for the best of times while expecting at times the worst. david

[rooster 58]

     Tyb, my first job out of high school was in construction as well. The contractor I worked for was one stressed guy, and it bled over to the rest of us. He would yell or scream at his men and he did nothing to teach anyone.

    When he left the jobsite for anything, all his men, includung his sons; sat down and took a break. I'm not sayin that was right, it's just how the guy made you feel.

    I do give him credit tho. Today he is a very successful contractor that builds some of the finer homes in Pittsburgh, including one for Sid Crosby of the Penguins. He is still very harsh with his subs and he has alot of turnover to this day. And imo the quality suffers as well. Everything is about production and speed, which results in errors and lesser quality. Ever try to put flooring in a room that's 2 in" out of square? :

[Cedarman]

Once you give instructions, it is foolish to ask, "Do you understand what you are to do".  The answer usually is yes.  What is better is to say something like "Show me how to do it".  "Grade these boards and tell me why".  "Which side are you to plane?".  "If you forget or it doesn't make sense, what are you to do"?
In other words have them teach you what you want them to know or do.
Guaranteed it will take more than one lesson.
After they are doing what you ask, give them a little time, then go back and inspect to make sure what you want is what you are getting.
Make sure that you thank them any time they ask if this is right, or have questions about doing it right.
Make sure that they know that it is a red flag if they find themselves guessing about how to do something and that they need to get it clarified.

I tell them that it is worse to guess at it, then to actually make a mistake.
This still does not keep me from getting riled at some things, like leaving an unstickered bundle out overnight and getting it wet.

Communicating clearly and unambiguously goes a long way to getting good results.
  If you find yourself continuously getting upset with a person, you should plan on exiting that person.

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

People make mistakes, some just more than others. I find that with myself and my employees a quick check in the am and at the start after each brake of what we are doing goes a long way in keeping everyone dialed in. I can promise you that if you never do anything you will never mess anything up. I myself would rather mess up  trying than not try at all! JMTC Brian