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Ginsang

Started by Wes, April 04, 2004, 01:33:13 PM

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Wes

Has anyone successfully grown ginsang from seed ?

 A frend of mine tried a fiew years ago and nothing grew.
I would like to try it, and would like to know if there is more to it than just planting the seeds in the woods.

Thanks, Wes

Sawyerfortyish

Wes ginseng needs very limited light also the ground conditions must be right. Limestone ground with hardwoods like maple elm oak and the right amount of light and if you handle the seed right should get some to grow but this stuff is funny sometimes. Send me a PM if you want to know more or give me a call.

SwampDonkey

Here is a group that has been testing ginseng in southern New Brunswick.

http://www.eiii.org/EIII/projects/ginseng/ginseng.htm

I don't know much about them. I know some land owners have bought some seed here locally but never had any success. The seed is very expensive too, so I suppose the suppliers made good even if the woodlot owner didn't. We have the right soil here, but I think folks are planting the seed on sites too dry. They'de do better (I think) in rich hardwood sites, dark soils, but not too wet either. And those sites are usually small up here. I would plant the seed in fall, I don't know what they recommend. I'm no expert on ginseng by a long shot.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Wenrich

I saw where some guys were planting root stock.  Seems that you could shave a couple of years off of the growing schedule.  Root stock has to be planted in the fall.

Here's a list of suppliers that may be helpful.  Some even offer apprenticeships.  

http://altnature.com/ginseng/seedsetc.htm
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

SwampDonkey

Thanks Ron:

I've bookmarked it myself for future reference. Looks like a good site to start.  8)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Wes

Rootstock, maybe or I was thinking of starting seeds in a greenhouse then replanting it ? :P

 thanks for the link swamp donkey

 sawyer 40  I'll be contacting you soon.thanks  ;D

Wes

I just checked the two links. lots of good info. theres even a ginsang forum. ;D

Thanks again.

9shooter

Ginseng requires something like 77% shade to grow correctly. In other words very diffused woodland like light. My inlaws are leasing 80 acres to a ginseng company- I think the largest woodland simulated plot in North America, if not the world. You can see the lack of growth and the sunburnt plants where ever the canopy has a hole. You can but shade fabric from Farmtek (Sp?). Wisconson has large cultivated ginseng farms, but I don't remember where they are located. I think you put the seed in a bucket of water, and the seeds that float are not viable.
Earth First! We'll log the other planet's later!

SwampDonkey

9shooter

Is the site your in-laws are leasing quite moist dark soiled hardwood ground? Up this way that is were alot of our uncommon species live. And the sites are few in number, that's why the plants are uncommon. Most the best sites are cleared and being farmed. I don't think ginseng is native in New Brunswick, but I think it occurs in Nova Scotia and southern Manitoba, Quebec, and Ontario ( Panax trifolium). Species quinquefolium is not in the maritimes, which is what your cultivating I beleive. According to audubon, they occur in cool moist woods, which is why I think the plantings here fail because most of our hardwood sites are not real moist in my region. They are quite dry. Our moist, rich HWD sites are more sheltered on mid to lower slope positions that captures run-off with slower water perculation through the soil. This causes mottling in the soil horizons (pink or grey colored pockets).

Our site classification in New Brunswick has very limited data for hardwoods. They only present data for softwoods. There has been no effort to do a more thourough and complete job of it from what I can find. It appears the work was put together in the mid 80's as most of the references were from 1980-1988. Its during this time that government was putting more effort into research. Since then, there have been major cutbacks. But, none-the-less it makes it easy to classify sites in such a way that one can understand what kind of site your dealing with compared to other sites. Most of the time the field guide will ID sites based on the ground vegetation without having to dig a pit.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Wenrich

Here's a few more links for ginseng:  http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsaf/elibrary/archive/hort/vegetables/pihve94-04.htm

Says you need mature stands with fertile soil, preferably sandy loam and well drained.  They don't tolerate wet soils.  Also says you'll make more money in gingseng than in timber.  

Here's a listing of books on growing ginseng:  http://www.sedelmeier.com/growingginseng.htm

And here's one on growing ginseng from Virginia  http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/forestry/354-312/354-312.html

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Sawyerfortyish

Ron let me tell you something about the Ginseng business sometimes you can do very very well  :-X.  BUT it is an unpridictable market afected by many things. You might do well one year and the next you might give all you made and then some back. At least in the timber business if the bottom falls out of the market you can still burn it ;)

SwampDonkey

Ron:

The site type I mentioned isn't wet, its moist and well drained. But the water doesn't move through rapidly like on dry ridges. These sites are rich and very fertile and host white ash, yellow birch, sugar maple, basswood, and butternut.  I have some of these sites in mind and I have never seen softwood in them. The soil is like going to your local compost dealer, the soil is firm and silt loam or sandy clay loam. And is richest on sites with calcareous lithology.

Just wanted to make the distinction.

If it were a wetter site it would be a mixedwood cedar-yellow birch site, but not swampy cedar. For some strange reason balsam fir and red spruce grow best on those very dry hardwood sites, got no idea why. All I know is that's where you find the largest diameter old growth softwood up here. I planted 1 yr old red spruce on 15 acres of that site type and you'de swear they were 3 year old seedlings at the start of the next growing season. They were averaging 20 inches, then the snoe-shoe hare desided to eat some leaders of course. :-/   Off topic :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

steveo_1

Hey guys, im no expert on ginseng but i do have a few tips.First never plant ginseng where there is a lot of oak trees it will come up and maybe even grow, but the acid in the oak leaves leaches into the ground and will kill most seedlings,only plant where there are few oaks.Second always plant on the north facing side of a hill with a 20 degree slope or more.I have also heard from our buyer in Louisville that nobody wants cultivated "sang" and he will not pay for it.We have tried planting some and have yet to check it this year but it was there last fall, but lot of it has died out.We have some oaks around it so i believe eventually it will all die less i can dig it before it does.Good luck,your gonna need it!! :D
got wood?

Stan

The accepted method around here, is to scatter the seeds in the area where you find the sang. I'd imagine these mountain folks have tried about everything else.
I may have been born on a turnip truck, but I didn't just fall off.

SwampDonkey

Seems like one needs a delicate touch and lots of nerturing and most of all, patience. Seems the market is getting quite fussy on root shape, age, size and other things. This is only from reading of few of the sights you folks have posted. As I said in an earlier post, I'm no expert. Personally, I'm interested is growing new things, and experimenting, but in this case the investment in the seed is too prohibitive for me to experiment with it. And I know that I have very few microsites on my woodlot that I think it would survive in. If I were growing the ginseng for market I would have the buyers come pick it under supervision. Just picking it and hoping to sell the stuff might result in it sitting for months, dehydrating like a prune, or being attacked from some tuber infecting fungus like fusarium, common in potato crops.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Wenrich

A number of years ago, I talked to a guy that sold ginseng to foreign buyers.  He said he had to travel to an International airport (Washington, DC in his case), and the transaction took place in the airport.

The buyer had a briefcase full of money, and a scale.  It looked like any other type of drug transaction, but this one was legal.  

Don't have a clue as to how accurate that tale was, but it probably has changed since 9-11.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

SwampDonkey

Reminds me of a couple incidents years ago over bear galls and deer antlers. I know this has nothing to do with the ginseng market, but here's the story ;)

There was this Korean that arrived on the steps of my grandfather's house and he was interested in buying bear galls. He said he was from New York state. Grandfather guided bear hunters for the spring hunt every year and I suppose this fellow found his name in the Guide Outfitters brochure the Province used to publish. Anyway, the guy was invited inside and he sat and talked awhile on the porch with grandfather. But, after awhile I could tell grandfather was getting irritated with the guy. Then finally, grand father let loose and told the guy to float. Its not legal to sell bear galls in Canada. Not many years went by and I seen a report from Alberta where they seized several trailors loaded with mule deer antlers thought to be destined for the Korean markets.

I know ginseng is totally legit in most areas, there may be restrictions on wild ones in some areas. I don't know.

cheers
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

etat

Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

SwampDonkey

Good link cktate, although they controdict others by suggesting acidic soils are suitable for growth. I also noticed the note on certification of the product for export. Thanks. Too bad spikenard wasn't of any use, its a huge root. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Sawyerfortyish

Here in the northeast there is a digging season in some states and the root must be a mature root they can tell by the size and growth rings. To deal in ginseng you must have a buyers licence and fill out reports for each state as well as taking the dryed roots to a state rep for certification. without this certification paper it can't be shipped out of the country and is not supposed to be trasfered across state lines.
  As for growing ginseng wild root can be worth several hundred dollers a pound for dryed roots. While woods grown is much less and cultivated is the lowest price at only a few dollers a pound dry. For someone in the root business it is not hard to pick out woods grown from wild if you know what to look for. What I mean by woods grown really should be called tranplanted. If you buy seeds and spread them out in the woods it will grow just like the wild.

9shooter

SwampDonkey, My inlaws place is a mile or less from lake Superior. Yes it is a moist environment. The land mostly slopes to the North and I would guess the grade is about 15 to 30 degrees. While the ground is fairly sandy, there is a nice layer of woody loam on top- primarily from hard maple leaves. When they came through and planted the 80 acres, they cut down all the understory and took out hemlocks and oaks and cedars. I would guess that 95% of the remaining forest is maple. It looks like a park in there. You can nearly see from one end to the other. It sucks for deer hunting but it is a pretty woodlot. They leased the land for 7 years with the genseng corp. having an option for an additional 8 years. They are paying 8 g's per year. When viagra hit the market the genseng companies nearly went belly up. They had to file chapter 11 (I think). If you run the figures on the probable yeild, the 80 acres could in the future warrent a security detail. Depending on the market, values could run into the millions. The reason for the lease option is that they can't predict the growth of the roots nor the market. An 8 year window for harvest is a pretty decent time period for them to maximize their investment. The way I understand it they will only be able to grow genseng in this woods one time. The plants build up something in the soil that inhibits future genseng plant growth. The operation is labor intensive in that there are several full time employee's that go about with roundup sticks killing any thing competeing with the genseng and also spraying for certain blights and such that attack the plants.
Earth First! We'll log the other planet's later!

SwampDonkey

Good report 9shooter :)

Hope everything goes well with the crop, rural communities need crops like these to diversify and hopefully make lots of $$ doe $$   Family Farm Hits It Big In The Ginseng Market[/size]
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

L. Wakefield

   In WV this crop, as with anything else of any value, is subject to depredation by thieves. Almost anyone who can pronounce 'sang' will look for it and dig it if they find it. I was advised over and over if I found any to not let anyone know or it would be stolen.

   I bought some roots which were shipped to me in the fall. They must have been 3 year roots because they had berries last year. I took apart each berry and planted the seeds individually in plant pots with the bottoms torn out to segregate them- popsicle stix to mark- then my husband did his usual plow job which involves ripping up all the turf, tearing out all the rocks around the planting beds, and depositing what looks like a terminal moraine on top of all the perennials. After I raked it all off this year I was able to find 2 out of the 6 pots. I will have to wait and see what comes up. This is in my 'shade bed'- it's on the edge of a woodland and plenty shaded. The plants did well last year. No one up in Maine knows much about the plant around here. No sang hunters.  lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

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