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Parbuckle setup

Started by Qweaver, February 05, 2013, 06:57:38 AM

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Qweaver

I saw a picture on another post of parbuckling (sp) and I need to fix a trailer up to do this. 
What size winch is needed?  Can a heavy duty boat winch be used?  I plan to use the ramps that came with my WM LT28.  I often have to take an extra trailer with my tractor to pickup logs and this may solve that problem especially when there are only one or two logs.  Any suggestions or drawings on how to do this?
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Dakota

I just modified an old trailer I already had.  There are lots of ways to do it depending what kind of trailer you are going to use.  As far as the winch size, I used a Warn 2500.  On the bigger logs, I'd use a snatch block.  For a battery, I used a deep cell trailer battery.  I had enough juice to load 12-15 logs, depending on their size.



 



 



 
Dave Rinker

g_man

Here is a guy loading a trailer on utube. I like Dakotas set up with the high snatch block. Easier for multible logs and steep ramps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlIZvCXbXBg

metalspinner

I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Al_Smith

You can use any number of methods to "side haul " logs .Those that size could be walked up a pair of stout 8 foot 4 by 4's with a cable come along if nothing else .

My materal grandfather back in the day side loaded big oak logs with a pair of big Belgian geldings .Two horsepower so to speak .

Last spring I side loaded a 6000 pound oak log using a Ferguson tractor and 10 foot elm saplings 6 inchs in diameter .The less steep the ramps the easier it rolls .

John Mc

Somewhere on here are some good pictures of an "A-frame" loader someone made for loading logs over the end of a trailer.  It was an interesting concept, but I don't recall it clearly right now.  If I'm remembering correctly, the A-frame would lean off the back of the trailer. You'd winch the log to it.  When the log hit the A-frame, you'd keep on winching.  The winch would pivot the a-frame up and forward, lifting the log onto the trailer.  I can't seem to find it now...

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

beenthere

JohnMc is talking about the DanG-Fladeadheader rigging. And that is a simple and quite effective way to load a trailer.
Will search for it. Found what I was looking for.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,17613.0.html
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Qweaver

Here is what I came up with.  I will improve the come along mount to the fender.  I would have liked to mount the chain different but I had nowhere else to go.  My real concern is if the come along will be strong enough.  WM uses a boat winch on my LT28 and I have a 1500 lb boat winch that may work better and faster than the come along. I'd like to get down to my log pile to give it a trial run but it is just to muddy to get down there without using the dozer.  maybe when it freezes again.


  

  

  

 
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

John Mc

Hard to tell from the picture, but those stake pockets might be a stronger attach point for your chains than the fender.

Using a come-along may drive you batty before you've loaded too may logs.  That's going to be time-consuming.

As far as the pulling power needed, remember you are doubling the pulling strength with the way you wrap the chains/cables around the logs. (Of course, you are also doubling the time it takes - you pull two feet of cable for every 1 foot of log movement.)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

ely

i use a 4 wheeler or the truck that tows the trailer to pull the logs up with. i also use a rope most times to wrap back to the trailer with... you can also gain power/ slow things down by using a snatch block to the loop that wraps the log.

Qweaver

Those fenders are made of 1/4" plate welded directly to the frame.  I got tired of replacing the 1/16" factory fenders everytime someone used the trailer and had a blowout.  I'm also going to try the boat winch so that I can get enough travel to load the log in one pull.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

scsmith42

Dakota, I like your setup - especially the high winch block.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

John Mc

Dakota -

Does the high winch block show signs of distorting your frame where it's attached?  It makes a pretty long lever to pull on.  I'm not sure how much force parbuckling actually takes, but my outer frame is light enough that I'd be worried about twisting something.  Did you have to reinforce that area at all?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

You have to remember you are rolling the log not dragging it .It doesn't take nearly the force as one might suspect .As such it's only common sense that the less steep the ramps are the easier it rolls .

chain

Anyone tried the 'Donahue implement hauler-trailer' for transporting logs? Lock the wheels, pull forward, entire bed of trailer slides down to almost ground level. Then, roll on logs, when loaded just back up,  unlock, trailer and load ready to haul.

Al_Smith

I assume you are talking about the tube frame type of trailer that slides over the locked axles .

John Mc

Quote from: Al_Smith on February 09, 2013, 05:19:18 AM
You have to remember you are rolling the log not dragging it .It doesn't take nearly the force as one might suspect .As such it's only common sense that the less steep the ramps are the easier it rolls .

Yes, I'm aware of that, but some idea of the torque on the trailer frame for a set-up such as Dakotas would be helpful.  I'd probably set up something with a bit longer ramps.  It would still be helpful to know how beefy his frame is compared to mine, and whether he's seen signs of bending or twisting.  It's hard to tell from the pictures, but my trailer is definitely closer in construction to Dakota's than to Qweaver's.  (If I had something like Qweavers trailer, I wouldn't be worried about it.)

I might be even lighter than Dakota's. The frame where I would attach the upright for the block is 1,25 or 1.5" square tubing, and not very thick wall.  I might be able to stiffen it up a bit with a triangular gusset out to the bottom of the fender, but my fender isn't all that tough.  I have hauled 1/2 cord of green beech firewood in it without any problems, but that's a bit different than the side load that parbuckling would put on the frame.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

Well quite frankly then in all honesty you're not going to haul a very big log with it then .Seriously from what you say a 1/2 cord of ash would only weight about 16-1800 pounds at the most .It's fairly easy to get a log over a ton and it doesn't really need to be what's considered large .If it lands wrong it could easily bend the frame .

If this pic thing works this is a 12,000 pounder from a red oak 

Qweaver

I had 14,000 lbs of scrap on that trailer in this post once,  but the tires were crying out for help.  Glad I did not have far to go.  I will put a winch on this trailer if I find that I like parbuckling.   It's a real pain to have to trailer my tractor to the site to load logs.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

DR_Buck

Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Dakota

John Mc:  The frame on that old trailer is 1 1/2" X 4" channel, if I remember right.  What you can't see in the pictures, is the "foot" that extends from the bottom of the arm toward the center of the trailer.  It has a 45 deg. brace on it that spreads the force of the winching, accross the floor of the trailer(that's clear as mud!).  I used to have all the pictures of that build, but they have been lost with changes of computers etc. I like the extended arm because it makes it much easier to load the second and third tier of logs.  All I have for logs, are pine.  Hardwood logs would be a different story.  I'll look around for some more pictures of the build.  Found um!



 



 



 
Dave Rinker

chain

Quote from: Al_Smith on February 09, 2013, 07:48:43 AM
I assume you are talking about the tube frame type of trailer that slides over the locked axles .



Yes. the trailers listed at 10,000 to 12,500 lbs.  load.

Al_Smith

We hauled a 20 feet wide by 24 foot long post and beam building 3 or 4 miles down an 18 foot wide country road with a 630 John Deere on one of those things using heavy timbers to lengthen the trailer .

What a story that was one cold November day .

Qweaver

We loaded four nice red oaks using a 1500 lb boat winch.  The largest one was 24" small end  and the taper did make the log walk sideways quite a bit.  I just re-hooked the chain to favor the small end and it came up OK.  I can see that it will take a bit of practice to do this well.  I took 2 hours to load the four logs but a lot of that time was getting the setup right.  The next loading job will go a lot faster. 

That's still faster than loading and unloading the TLB, Loading the logs on the second trailer, reloading the tractor and taking everything back to the sawmil, unloading the tractor and finally unloading the logs. That takes two tow vehicles, two trailers and two drivers.

I am going to weld a diagonal brace on the fenders where the winch mounts for when I encounter those reall big logs.  But the boat winch was good enough that I won't bother with the expense of mounting an electric winch.
I liked how the process worked and will be doing this on a regular basis from now on.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Al_Smith

Like I said it's just physics .

A few years back I had a guy mill some logs for me with what I think was a trailer mount LT 15 .I can't remember the model to be exact but it only had a 12 HP Briggs engine .He could cut about 20 feet with it .

At any rate saw model or no that ramp up was fairly steep and he rolled a 16 foot white oak log up that thing with nothing but a boat winch .That thing was right at 32 inch on the fat end .Weighed what ,close to 3000 maybe more ? He didn't double it back either .Just took about 6 -8 wraps around the log and twirled that thing right up the ramp pretty as you please .

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