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Big stinkin red oak

Started by fishpimp, February 03, 2013, 09:36:36 AM

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fishpimp

Hey boyz I been sawin like a madman when I get time . Let me mention I'm still sawing at home plus all logs are green too. Well got a neighbor needing some sawing done so I took the plunge at my first paying job. I went in with confidence . Thought I had enough experience to do what he needed done.

Well I'm my own worst enemy. First log was beast of a red oak. My biggest log so far was a 28" yellow pine. Had to set up 730am so muddy ground b froze gettin in. Returned around 10 and customers had big ugly on my rig. I raise her up on bed and study this ugly thing. Was over 36" but as u can c wasn't very round at all.
The short story ... Log was to wide . Tried slabing it all over to mayb whittle it down. Got hung at my blade adjusters 2 times .
Finally butchered it up enough to get some really wide boards.
I look at first few boards and they crooked as can b .
This log is a 2yr old dry tornado tree. Def the hardest thing I sawed .
End of the 5 hr day had wavy crooked boards and 5smoked blades and 3inches of snow.
I'm desperate for any help. This is good friend who has lots if work. Do I need some different blades? I'm running .45 that wm gave me with my mill.

  

 

red oaks lumber

its very hard to saw wide lumber from dry logs,as you found out with wavey lumber.this may seem odd but on dry logs if you turn your lube off it will help some on the wavey. dry sawdust added with water will swell making your kirf to tight .
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Gasawyer

The 7deg bands would help with the dry oak. Also if your getting any build up on the band try some tide for cold water works great for heart pine and have used it some for dry oak. Keep your band tension high and plenty of water if band tension starts to drop(if tension drops in cut don't add more pressure with jack add more water on the band to keep tension stable). Don't force the band through the log let it cut the end results will be much better. It might help also to cut approx 6" of the starting end of the log if they have been setting for 2 years cut to log length.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

customsawyer

Judging from your radiator I would guess that you have a diesel engine. If that is the case get some .055 blades. Might also try some 4° blades.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

LOGDOG

Gasawyer ... do you have your own sharpener and setter? If you do, set the blade to .030 or .032 and then sharpen it to 4 degrees on the face. Light sharpening. May need to take it around the loop a couple times if you're starting off with a blade that is 10 degrees to begin with. There is a magnetic protractor you can buy from the big box stores that will stick onto the side of your sharpener (if you have one), parallel to the grinding wheel, and you just tilt the grinder until the needle on your protractor reads whatever you want it to. After several trips around the sharpener, you may need to de-burr the blade and check the set. Sharpening removes material and therefore will reduce set. You want to make sure that set stay up there near .030 for a great big, hard log. That will create a wider path for the blade and chip expansion. The 4 degree face on the blade will address cutting the hard face. Feed it nice and slow through the log and you should be golden. I have posts somewhere here on the forum that contain a chart for how much set and what tooth angle you should have depending on what size of log and density you're dealing with. It came from Timber Wolf blades / Suffolk Machinery. You'll find that with band blades, you'll get the best performance if you set them up for the specific task you're asking them to take on.

LOGDOG

Gasawyer ...read this thread:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,56080.msg811823.html#msg811823

For some reason the website with the charts isn't available at this time. I'd have to poke around and see if there's another way to get to it. I had copied and pasted some things though in that thread.

Solomon

Quote from: LOGDOG on February 03, 2013, 11:32:32 AM
Gasawyer ...read this thread:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,56080.msg811823.html#msg811823

For some reason the website with the charts isn't available at this time. I'd have to poke around and see if there's another way to get to it. I had copied and pasted some things though in that thread.
Question for Customsawyer and Logdog;   Do you set the teeth BEFORE sharpening or AFTER and why?  Does Cooks band roller remove the set from the blade?  Well... you guys can see where the rest of this inquirey is going.   
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

The Path to Salvation is narrow, and the path to damnnation is wide.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

FishPimp......you said you arrived and the customers had the log on your rig

That dog won't hunt with my mill. I AM the only person to load a log on my mill. I don't care if it is just on the loading arms. That's just me.  >:(

You said you got your blade guides hung a couple of times.  You may now need to check your blade alignment.

Try putting the BIG end of the log toward the head next time. Sure helps when you have to whittle a log down....your chances of getting hung up are slim.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

LOGDOG

Here's the link to that chart I was looking for:

http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/troubleshooting.html

I would copy and paste it here but it's copyrighted so I'm not going to. Print it out for your reference in case it ever disappears. I'm even more aggressive with set and hook than the chart recommends in some cases, but I've cut some BIG logs on my WM's and I'm not afraid of any of them anymore. Just remind yourself that band blades are used to cut metal every day. If you can set a bandsaw blade up to cut metal straight and without issue, you can sure set one up to cut wood, that is much softer than metal, without issue. It just takes finding the right combination.

Solomon ... I set my blades before sharpening and may even bump them slightly ... but only slightly after sharpeing for the sake of uniformity. If I'm having to change the entire profile of the blade and rework the face back from a 10 degree to a 4 degree because I maybe run out of 4 degrees, then I'll set first ...sharpen to the angle of that set, de-burr, check set (because you want to maintain that set ... that's crucial) and if I've lost too much of the set, bump it back up and just kiss sharpen the blade so that my corners of the tooth have been sharpened to the angle they'll be cutting at. See ... if you sharpen the blade, de-burr it, and then set it and add say .003 - .005 set to it, the corner of the tip of the tooth is no longer sharpened to the angle of approach it'll be cutting at.

I have no experience with Cooks band roller and can't comment on it. All I can say is that in all the millions of board feet I've cut with narrow band mills, I've never had the need to roll a blade. I do know that other mills with "wide" bands roll their blades though. No one has sold me on rolling narrow bands yet. If they can sell me on it ... I'd get behind it. Just hasn't happened yet. I like the Cook family real well and have enjoyed my conversations with them in the past. Maybe if that's something of interest to you, you could set up a visit to their plant and saw with and without a blade that's been rolled, maybe examine a blade that hasn't been rolled yet, and then after it's been rolled.

The blade is the most important part of your mill. If it's wrong ... you're going to have a bad day no matter what kind of mill you have or how big. That's why it's worth studying blade dynamics and testing theory to achieve better results.

Hope this helps.

Qweaver

I feel for you.  I struggled with big logs for years.  What a pain.  This is just another reason that I'm happy that I now own a swinger.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Solomon

That was a huge help.  It's a lot more than I knew 10 minutes ago!!
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

The Path to Salvation is narrow, and the path to damnnation is wide.

Seaman

Fishpimp,
Don't know zactly where you are, but if there is a lot of big stuff, I can bring over the Lucas. I could cut the big, or slab it into cants for your WM.
Not trying to take your work, could work out good for both of us.
Lemme know.
Frank
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

customsawyer

I set after I sharpen. Keep in mind that my blades will have lost 5 to 7 thousandths from cutting and sharpening. The band roller does not take out any set as the roller is not touching any part of the teeth. I don't have to roll very many blades but will on occasion, usually only after I have sharpened them 3+ times.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

LOGDOG

I've also found that splitting/ripping a log lengthwise down the center with the chainsaw is an easy way to make the log more manageable if you need to. If you don't have a big saw, saw as deep through the log as you can, pound some wedges in there, pick it up with a forklift or loader if you have one and drop it on it's back ...preferably the un-scored side. Should split it like a peach.  :) Now you have two manageable pieces of wood vs. one brute.

fishpimp

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on February 03, 2013, 11:44:41 AM
FishPimp......you said you arrived and the customers had the log on your rig

That dog won't hunt with my mill. I AM the only person to load a log on my mill. I don't care if it is just on the loading arms. That's just me.  >:(

You said you got your blade guides hung a couple of times.  You may now need to check your blade alignment.

Try putting the BIG end of the log toward the head next time. Sure helps when you have to whittle a log down....your chances of getting hung up are slim.  :)
Poston I feel same way u do expect for this guy. We known each other long time and he has a alot lumber sawn. He was very busy yest and knew he would b in and out.
Gotta ya on the alignments . Will do first thing tomoro .hope there still good . I didn't tug on them too much.

fishpimp

Thanks y'all.
Guess I will look into some different blades. Should I stick with wm or look elsewhere ?
Quote from: customsawyer on February 03, 2013, 11:22:56 AM
Judging from your radiator I would guess that you have a diesel engine. If that is the case get some .055 blades. Might also try some 4° blades.
Yep 47 hp yanmar

Quote from: Seaman on February 03, 2013, 12:20:42 PM
Fishpimp,
Don't know zactly where you are, but if there is a lot of big stuff, I can bring over the Lucas. I could cut the big, or slab it into cants for your WM.
Not trying to take your work, could work out good for both of us.
Lemme know.
Frank
Will keep that in mind. Thanks

LOGDOG

No reason to go away from WoodMizer blades. Do you have sharpening and setting equipment or will you have to send them off for that? That would make a difference. Different manufacturers have different tooth and gullet profiles that require certain cams on your sharpener to raise and lower the head so it will trace the profile and duplicate it.

You've got yourself a nice mill there. It'll get the job done once you get a little more practice with it and do some experimenting.

Gasawyer

No ofence to you guys  just relating what works well for me for the past 15 years. Do with it as you will.
I don't sharpen or set my bands tried in the past and wasn't worth the hassel. Granted it was with old woodmizer equipment. I have switched to WM 7deg .045*1 1/2 bands for all most everything. In pine I generally get 750- 1000bdft a band unless you hit metal. Oak is generally 500-700 bdft a band. Heart pine is very variable on band life.

Just finished a job Saturday  red oak down for 3 year took 1 band to make 500bdft of 6"-16" wide boards 10' long along withapprox 3 gal of water. And another band to complete the job sawing cherry and maple.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

dboyt

Thanks for the question and answers... this is why I keep coming back to this forum!
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

fishpimp

Sawed today. Same customer.same pile of frozen but dry ish red oaks. Overall had a good day.
Still wondering bout my blades. Tried several lube methods and 20gallons later of water I crunched somewhere round 800 bf. wd40 atf, bar lube diesel mix and dawn water lol . Still not gettin much footage at all out these blades. Gonna call wm tomoro. Hard to buy blades when I ain't gettin paid! Hahahah


  

 

LOGDOG

Fishpimp,

When you call WoodMizer, ask them if they'll send you a 4 degree and a 7 degree blade to test out free. They've been willing to do that in the past. That way you can try the blades before having to order 10 or 15 in a box.

fishpimp

Good idea. Called wm . They sending me a .55 4 deg blade. Lady said I run them at a higher speed .
Question for those who have or do run them. Are they worth the extra cost and I also heard the resharp life isn't as long?

Dulled 4 .45 10 deg blades today. Mayb around 750 bf . Logs are muddy too.
Has anyone turned off there lube while debarking? Seems it washed debris back into the  blades path??

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: fishpimp on February 05, 2013, 06:58:33 PM

Has anyone turned off there lube while debarking? Seems it washed debris back into the  blades path??

If the debarker is working that log, keep the lube on.  :) Sometimes I don't use lube. But that depends on the moisture content, sap content and how much junk is sticking to the blade,
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

customsawyer

The only time I turn my lube off is on really dry logs.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

fishpimp

Cant beat experience to me.
But question ? How do the blades make it any time without water?
This stuff to me isn't that dry . I can tell u there is so much sawdust on the boards and deck of the mill. Mayb I'm running too much h20? Idk .
Trial and error. I just want to maximize my cuts with my blades. I'm not pushing the feed rate to fast nor super slow.

The sawdust is so thick it's like snow sticking to everything!

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