Select bandmill 4221

[stumpjumper83]

So originally I was looking at a pendu 6900 scragg, nice mill, very fast, long lead time, and a pretty penny.  Ready to cut, I was going to have almost 600k tied up in a building, debarker, chipper pack, and mill, and stacker.  Had to set back and re-tool.  Looking at a select 4221 now, diesel powered, portable.  It will spend alot of its time at a single location but the portability is a nice option.  Looking at a dolled up one with a strip debarker for much less.

Anyone here have one and use it in hardwoods?  Maples, oaks, cherry, locust, hickory, and such? 

[boman1]

I don't have one. I researched them before I bought my WoodMizer. I have their demonstration DVD that I watched.... several times! Super fast machine! Cost a little more than I wanted to spend. Double cut nice.!

[rooster 58]

    I looked at the select video. Awesome machine. The Woodmizer 3500 would be another good choice if budget is a concern

[stumpjumper83]

Just looked at wood-mizers web site... even the lt70's dont hold a candle to the selects, just look at blade hp, a select is putting 115 to the blade.  Not only that but there is not a back haul with the carriage...

Budget is only a minor concern, my priorities are 1. having an accurate mill 2. having a mill that will produce 3. not tied to the power pole 4. cost.

[boman1]

The Wood Mizer....will do all three of your requests:) Good luck!

[rooster 58]

    Yep! Look at the WM 3500 industrial mill. Much more than the LT70 is. I have the 70 now, shootn for the 3500 for the next one. I know of a few mills that use them, very accurate and very competitive on production with less maintenance and running costs

[LOGDOG]

I love Woodmizer but there's nothing portable about the 3500. The Select is a fast mill. I looked at them several times myself. One thing I didn't like about the Select is the material flow. I see the operators have to roll the log/tip the cant and dump the board cut off the top onto a conveyor belt if set up stationary. Otherwise, if not using that method and possibly portable you have to have 2 guys or so diving into the path of the carriage to snatch the sawn flitches off the top of the log/cant. I'm sure you've seen guys doing that as well in their videos. Still ... they saw a boat load of lumber. One thing with Select is that those swedged, wide blades are a whole different ball game when it comes to blade maintenance. Expensive equipment, expensive blades and you better know, or have someone who knows what they're doing. One other thing about a Select ... you gotta be an octopus to run one. Look at the hydraulic handles on the front of the rig. Plus it saws in both directions but can you push material off the rig in both directions? Nope. If it was a vertical headrig or slant headrig you could saw in both directions and let the material fall straight down onto a conveyor and never have to pause ... and never have to put a man in harms way as he dashes in to grab a flitch.

You have a great mill in the LT70 that can be enhanced with material handling conveyors and edgers if you don't already have them. Probably the easiest way to increase your production, with the least amount of investment is to add a second shift to your existing equipment or add a grade run around system. Is your LT70 diesel at the moment? Myself .... I'd be looking to get away from diesel and go electric. Diesel costs are high with oil prices sitting at $97.00/bbl in the middle of winter. Something like $3.79/gallon here in the South. It'll be much higher this summer probably. I'd be looking to go electric all the way. I know you said you'd like to get away from the power pole .... generator maybe? But is there any cost savings?

Woodmizer had a vertical headrig that I want to say was paired up with a Cleereman carriage. Nice rig. I don't see it on their website any longer. Maybe they went away from that. Brewco is making one that is similar. I like a vertical headrig or better yet, a slant bed mill for down and out production. Keep that material falling away from you onto conveyors and heading down the line to it's next step.

McDonough and Cleereman make a real nice headrig combo and will absolutely get down and saw some lumber. Seconds per cut, good material flow, great service... I know the Cleereman's personally and grew up right near their shop. You look at one of their carriages once and then look at any portable sawmill ...from any maker. You'll see the difference. Here's a rig like I'm describing and they can be had pretty reasonable second hand these days actually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdDKT60ipu8 

[LOGDOG]

This illustrates perfectly what I was trying to describe about cutting in both directions and getting that material away from you quickly. Let's see a Select do this. (Keep in mind I like Select.... but if you're going to take on the kind of expenses you described, you're going to need to boogie day in and day out to make those payments.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=d_jjrv9X5UU&NR=1

[shenandoahsawmill]

I saw with a double cut Povlsen horizontal bandmill with 5" wide blades and about 60 hp. I saw solo most of the time and spend 60 percent of my time getting boards off of the log as I saw bark to bark. I typically saw down and back and walk around the mill and remove two boards at a time by hand. The wide blade offers a big improvement (over narrow band)  in getting flat lumber. The blades are aprox. $275.00 each and I sharpen them on the mill with a home made jockey grinder. I do not use stellite tips on the saws rather sweged and shaped teeth. You will want to be sure to have a local saw shop if you use wide bands or go through the expense and learning curve to maintain them. It is very costly equipment and a steep learning curve to bench saws yourself. I bought the mill very inexpensively but did a lot of work to get it into decent shape. One of the attracttions of the mill is it's wide throat at about 40" but the drawback here is that wide cuts means heavier offbearing. I think for a solo operation double cut is overkill. But the cost of the saws was not a whole lot more to get two sets of teeth vs. teeth on one edge so I went for it. If you do work solo you will want to consider a slant head as was stated already. Gravity is pretty darn reliable to get the board off the log/cant and a conveyor can drag it away for secondary ops. I did have a built in circular blade edger on this mill where the edger rode with the carriage. Don't use the edger as I only saw bark to bark. I could never keep up with the mill's output using the edger anyway. The guy I bought the mill from said with a decent operator and the edger two guys offbearing would have a difficult time keeping up with the mill.

[rooster 58]

    Now let's see.... If you want potability, I don't believe you want a select. It's much more costly and overkill. Better off with a super or maybe a 50.

    My 70 is diesel for now. Depending on where I find land will determine if I have 3 phase or not. And that's no bargain either, unless I would run 2 shifts. But here we pay for power by the day, every day

   That's a good idea on working 2 shifts, if I can find the right labor force. I just want to be able to produce enough so  that it doesn,t take so long to produce a truckload of lumber, so that I can cut down on mold, staining, and other issues

[LOGDOG]

Way back ... I can't remember who it was or where, I saw a fella who has KSIW written on the control panel of his mill. It stood for: "Keep Saw In Wood". Simple statement right? But then I started keeping track of how much of my day my saw was NOT in wood because I was doing other things ....like off bearing, loading logs, moving slabs, sharpening blades, etc. The machine I had was capable of so much more, but I wasn't using it to it's full potential. So when we talk about getting more production ... in anything ... that's usually where I start to look first.  Best part is ... it doesn't always involve taking on more debt, maybe expanding payroll and log costs, but if you're on your game ... those last two should be making you money.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

I assume you are still planing on sawing Ties and Pallet out of low grade logs Mate  ???

As $60-$70 k will also get you into a brand new Circular Mill with edger and powerplants $140 to $160 if you go an Auto mill with vert edger depending how you set it up  ??? S/H you can pick mills up alot cheaper too as others have alredy stated  ;)

Select builds a dang good sawmill but in my opinion wide bands are good if your in good to excellent logs trying to saw grade but if your doing low to med grade and dirty logs your better of with a circular mill .circs are also more forgiving to learners or inexpirenced operators and will give more consistant production with them operating as you are a startup mill  ;)

A wide band will only take just a touch less kerf compaired to a circular mill also 

There are reason's Us Ole Dogs stick with Circular Sawmills and its not because we are dumb or set in our ways    :P ;) :D ;D ;D ;D 8)

Questions

What sort of log supply do you have access to min max dia & lengths and  what markets are you chasing  ???

Do you have a good sawyer or mill manager linned up to run the mill and  are you going to be at the mill day in day out ??? whats your labor force like in your area  ???

What sort of Production are you chasing avverage per day whats the size mix and volume percentages ???

What is the sawing rate per thousand you are sawing for or trying to work to after taking out del log costs and del of sawn products   ???

Regards Chris

[stumpjumper83]

Well, yes I will be cutting some ties with the mill. For instance beech can be bought dirt cheap for good logs and cut into ties.  Grade market is almost not there for it though so you have to be buying good 12" 10' logs at 1k a load or so delivered.

Also I would like to be able to make timber mats, as im in the heart of the gas fields.  Blocking is going to be a hot commodity too.  Dont get me wrong I'll cut grade if its there but if im down to #2 boards in soft maple, I'm going to cut the largest piece i can sell out of it and move along.  why cut pallet decking for 50 cents a foot when i can cut a tie for 46?

As far as log suply, I'll be buying it in log form or on the stump, as we have 5 skidders and a harvester already working.  In some cases I'm going to be sawing the birch and beech that the mills will give the logger for them cutting what they want.

Why the select, because i still want to get the pendu, its just too much at the moment.  The select will cut what I need, and if and when the pendu is purchased they will make a good team.  Might even try cutting some nice black wallnut if I can buy the logs right.

[stumpjumper83]

Well thursday i get to see a select in operation, and posibly place the order for my own mill, we will see...

[stavebuyer]

I used to buy timber for an old time circle miller who built a new grade mill around a select 6" double cut and resaw. As was noted the 6" bands ended up in the construction of a filing room that cost much more than sawmill itself and the hiring of a high priced man to maintain the blades. He now saws about 30K a shift but the first years learning curve in maintaining the 6" bands would have sunk most folks. He also modified the stop-n-loader, log turner, and dogs to air cylinders as I recall. For sawing ties you really ought to reconsider the diesel version of the Hurdle automatic circle mill.

[Travis James]

Did you ever buy that Select Sawmill? Ive recently been given use of one at a friends old sawmill. I have a ton of questions.