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Ash Neutralizer powder for wood burning furnaces

Started by CT Yankee, January 29, 2013, 10:51:02 PM

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CT Yankee

I have a 2400 E-Classic purchased and installed in the fall of 2011 (so I am now in my second season).  At the recommendation of my retailer, I use this anti-corrosive powder that CB calls Ash-trol.  At first I used one tablespoon of Ash-trol every time I filled the box.  But my retailer is now recommending another compound he gets at a lower price from some vendor in MA.  A secret formula, he says.  My beef is this stuff costs $31 in what looks like a gallon jug.  In checking on line, I find that some use what is called soda ash.  Other say that plain old lime suffices.  I do not want to violate any warranties so I pay the $31 and continue the use.  Anyone have comments on this?  Is lime OK as a substitute?

RCG
Killingly, CT

thecfarm

CT Yankee,welcome to the forum. Others will be along soon with some help.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

I bought my indoor wood boiler in 1980. Since that time, it has been used every winter and but one or two times, never been cleaned out completely of the ash in the bottom of the round boiler. And have never added any compound to "neuter" the ash that is there. Burn all hardwoods.

I don't know what the damage might be that CB or others think the ashes might be causing, but (knock on wood), I'm right at 32 years and still solid. The ashes are right against the steel with water jacket on the other side. Closed system, so no fresh water being heated if that has anything to do with it.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

r.man

CT Yankee does your warranty state that you must use this product or you void the warranty? If it doesn't then this is an extra like expensive hair gel from a salon.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

CT Yankee

Appreciate the replies.  Very interesting reply from "beenthere."  The reason given for using the product is to neutralize the acid from the firewood.  The acid combined with the moisture in the burning of wet wood will rust the metal in the firebox.  Obvious as to what will happen if this condition persists.  I would deduce that you are burning very dry wood and the wood is low in acid.  I burn mostly oak which is a high acid firewood.

Another factor: my furnace is an OWB.  Before I installed the OWB I was burning #2 heating oil.  I have a large home (3600 sf) and consumed up to 1400 gallons a year in cold years.  When oil went to $4.50 a gallon, I made the decision to go for the OWB.  The winter I installed the OWB I had my 40 ac logged but the firewood from the tops was too wet so I bought seasoned firewood at $200 a cord.  That winter I burned 8 cord.  This year I bought some firewood initially but have started to mix in the firewood from the tops.  The latter was initially red maple, ash and birch but I have recently started using the split oak (seasoned one year).  Possibly high in moisture.  So with all these factors, am I using good judgement here on the continued use of the acid neutralizer?

I will check on the warranty issue.

rcg in ct

thecfarm

I was not going to comment,but might just as well. I had a closed system in my other house. I think I had it for more 20 years,I had it put in. Never heard of that stuff then,never had a problem with it. Now I have a Heatmor,OWB,for 5 years now.Heatmor does not even mention that stuff or if my dealer did tell me,I forgot about it. BUT if the warranty says to use it,well I guess you should,if the warranty is worth more than the paper it is printed on. I have burned wood right off the stump,both hardwood and softwood and have burned so called season wood and have burned dry,dead cedar too. I may be shooting myself in the foot,really no way to tell for sure about it all. lots of theorys out there,coming from the OWB makers and from people who run them.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

beenthere

QuoteI would deduce that you are burning very dry wood and the wood is low in acid.  I burn mostly oak which is a high acid firewood.


I do burn dry, seasoned-at-least-two-year wood, that is 99% white oak, or red oak, or in the last four years it is mostly ash.

Maybe there is a way to get the ash tested for acidity, and make a decision that way. I don't buy into the ash being acidic and harming the boiler steel. They say wood ash is alkaline and is good for a garden soil that is acidic and needs a higher PH.
There isn't even any rusting or pitting of the steel under the ash layer that remains in the boiler all year long. That steel as near as I can tell is as smooth and shiny as it was 32 years ago. If I didn't have a fire going, I'd clean it out and take a picture for you. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

r.man

A Heatmor would definitely not need anything since the ash never comes into contact with the boiler steel. Don't know about any others.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

bandmiller2

Myself I think the soda ash would be more usefull added to the boiler water in a small amount to be sure its neutral.When I ran a power boiler I added it to the feed water.Good burning habits and cleaning the ashes at the end of the heating season should be all thats necessary.If you have a steel firebox I would clean it good in the spring and spray with light oil. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Logging logginglogging

Just do as we all do.... Pay the big bucks$$$ for Ash-trol until someone with time knowlage or money enough analizes this stuff and tells us what is really in it!!

CT Yankee

Yes Logging, that will be the path taken for now.  Thanks to all who commented.

Slabs

 They say wood ash is alkaline and is good for a garden soil that is acidic and needs a higher PH.





My Grandma used to talk about leaching out lye from oak ashes for making lye soap.

There is also an article in one of the Foxfire books about making lye soap with ashes.
Slabs  : Offloader, slab and sawdust Mexican, mill mechanic and electrician, general flunky.  Woodshop, metal woorking shop and electronics shop.

Logging logginglogging

only a little in the garden... too much won't be good.
I usually take my ashes in the winter and dump them in my driveway where it gets steep.

muddstopper

Wood ash will adverage around 20% pure calcium carbonate, but will only have about a 20-50% calciumcarbonate Equivalent.(CCE). The Potassium percentage, which is extracted for making lye soap, is only around 5%. Potassium carbonate will also increase ph levels and is considered alkaline. This leads me to think that raising ph levels in a firebox shouldnt be necessary.

It is my understanding that Astrol is just plain sodium carbonate. Just baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) with just one less water molecule. If you take pure sodium bicarbonate and heat it to 250degrees, the extra water molecule will boil off and leave you with pure sodium carbonate. I take the arm and hammer baking soda that my wife leaves setting in the back of the fridge, and throw in a handfull in the stove. The only thing I can tell it does is cause any cresote buildup in the flue to flake off and fall down to the cleanout at the bottom. Baking soda is also a very high alkaline material and will raise ph levels.

Logging logginglogging

well when i get more ashtrol this week.... I guess ill do a tast test between the two....

superwd6

Seen a Wood Doctor outdoor gassifier boiler all rotted away from the inside-creasote eat right through it.The price for Ashtrol doesn't upset me as much as the plastic bottle or spoon ALWAYS breaking before it's all gone :D. Youtube has a little video about how gassification makes more acid than a standard boiler or stove

Logging logginglogging

Quote from: Logging logginglogging on February 04, 2013, 02:22:06 PM
well when i get more ashtrol this week.... I guess ill do a tast test between the two....

I was making Moose meat spegtti sauce and some some baking soda.....soooooo

Well as promised i did a taste test.... the Ashtol was actually more pleasent. Tased more like flower than baking soda. They are not the same thing I can tell you that!!!!  Yuck!!!!  :-\

muddstopper

Now take your baking soda and put in in a pan and set it on the stove. Heat to 250degrees and then let cool. Once the extra moisture is boiled off the sodium bicarbonate, you will have sodium carbonate and it will look like flour. Probably taste different too. still wont taste good.

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