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Materials for Garage Cabinets

Started by lowpolyjoe, January 29, 2013, 02:21:51 PM

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lowpolyjoe

Hey all,

I'm in the middle of a woodworking project in my garage.  I work on an old custom built-in worktable and some portable tables.  It's not a very good setup and I think i've finally had enough :)

I'm considering building custom cabinets to line one full side of the garage and top with a nice flat continuous work surface.  My woodworking skills aren't the greatest, but i got this Kregg Jig for Christmas and it really makes it look easy to screw together some cabinets. 

I've got a few related questions. 

1) What material would you guys suggest for the cabinets themselves?  They need to support the weight of the work surface and deal with the moisure of a garage.  They don't have to be all that pretty.  Price is a concern.  I can't spend a fortune on this makeover.  I was thinking some sort of 3/4" or 1" plywood but that's as far as i got?  Ideally something i could pick up at HD/Lowes.

2) I'll need a good amount of hardware for drawers and hinged doors.  And i'd like to make one cabinet section slide out to produce an "L" shaped work area.  The drawers have to support fair amount of weight of random tools.  Can anyone suggest a good online supplier with reasonable prices for quality hardware?

I had more questions but they escape me at the moment. 

Thanks a lot
Joe

thecfarm

Probably not possible,but I prefer draws myself, Slide it out and look into it. Don't have to get down on your hands and knees to find something that is way in the back. That's how our kitchen is. But I know the slides cost money. Just have to do what the wallet tells you to do.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

lowpolyjoe

I definitely want some drawers.  A lot more back-friendly than digging around in the back of a cabinet.  I'm thinking maybe a layout similar to traditional kitchen cabinets where there's a single drawer above each cabinet.   

All drawers would be nice if i was only storing small stuff.  Unfortunately my limited space means i'm going to have to put larger stuff like my miter saw and little router table under my workbench.  So i'm thinking i'll need some large-door-access cabinets. 

beenthere

I made 4 different 5' units that are on wheels for my garage.



 

Semi-finished


There are drawers and some doors. They are made so a 20' 2x4 can be clamped in for a fence (with the idea that I would put a vertical router in that fence for laying boards flat and routing an edge or just jointing one edge). There are four because I have four kids so they could eventually each get one.
The drawers are deep and will open full depth.
For cleaning, they roll out easily or can be repositioned for a different spot if desired.

They are made from 2x4's bolted together and plywood.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

lowpolyjoe

Ah, beautiful!   That's just the kind of layout i'm looking for.  Although i don't think i'll make mine mobile except for one or two "L" section pullouts. 

I've never had dust management in my garage before, but this current project is killing me.  I work with MDF a lot it makes the worst dust ever.  I was considering running some dust-collection and maybe air-tool lines in the cabinets as well.   Unfortunately, all these fancy bells and whilstles are gonna jack up the price. 

That was one of my other questions i forgot to ask earlier - recommendations for a good value dust collection system.  I might just get a dust-deputy for my shopvac - i've seen a few people use them with some success.  I'd love a stand alone cyclone dust collector unit, but they seem pretty expensive... and did i read that they can explode or something?  Someone on a forum (can't remember if it was FF or elsewhere) pointed me to an excellent website of a guy who builds his own cyclone dust collectors.  That's not something i'm gonna be able to do.  But  if there is a worthwhile offering at a few hundred dollars, i might consider buying one.  Harbor Frieght has a cheap one :)   Unclear how well it'll perform tho - don't want to buy something useless no matter how cheap it is



beenthere

joe
For cheap, and for that airborne dust in the air, I just hang a square boxed window fan up with a 20" x 20" furnace filter on the intake side. Surprising how much fine dust this will remove on the low speed setting. Even a pair of them wouldn't cost much compared to some of the commercial dust systems.
But it doesn't take the place of a good shop vac system either.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Tree Feller

I'd use 3/4" Birch plywood for the cabinet carcases. If building frame & panel doors, think about 1/4" hardboard for the panels. It's lightweight, cheap and the brown color looks good against the Birch plywood. I used Pine for the cabinet face frames and door frames.

For drawer slides, I suggest 100# full-extension slides. The Blum Blumotion slides are probably the best but they are also very pricey. I like the Accuride slides but they aren't inexpensive either. You will just have to look around for a bargain on the slides. Amazon is probably a good place to start.

I also like the 35 mm Euro-type door hinges. They are hidden, strong, adjustable and available for either face-frame or frameless construction.

I've read lots of good things about the 2 hp Harbor Freight DC when it is outfitted with a canister filter and a Thein baffle. That's probably the most effective, low-cost dust collection system you can install. A shop vac doesn't move enough air to be really effective at dust collection. You need 800 CFM air movement at the tool to capture the really fine, harmful dust. If you are only interested in collecting the larger chips then a bit less air flow will suffice. A total dust collection system will utilize both a DC and an air cleaner. I still haven't sprung for the air cleaner and dust still accumulates on the horizontal surfaces in my shop, even with a 3 hp cyclone dust collector plumbed to all the major tools.

Hope this helps.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

Larry

For plywood Home Depot has the best birch/oak plywood at reasonable price.  Its definitely not the highest grade but usable.  It will have an occasional void but small.  Of course sometimes the plywood as far as color is luck of the draw.  Birch ¾" is running somewhere around $45.  It's USA made by Columbia PureBond.  A lot of China plywood is on the market...not worth carrying home.

For drawer slides/hinges go to www.ahturf.com.  A little slow shipping but the price is right.  I use Blum because I'm used to how they operate and how to install.  There are other good brands.  For the top drawers use full extension.  Use ¾ extension for lower drawers especially if there bigger to save on cost.  Euro hinges are the only way to go, as they offer 3 planes of adjustment after installation.  If ordering Blum make sure you order screws.  They use a #7 to get the full strength rating.  That size screw is hard to find locally.

I'm running a 3 HP USA made dust collector which exhausts outside in a big pile.  To clean up the fine dust I have a Delta air cleaner hanging in the middle of the shop.  Sometimes I'll wear one of the white dust masks or even a respirator.  Too many years of working without dust collection and smoking have ruined my lungs...I was stupid. 
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

lowpolyjoe

Great information everybody, thanks!

I checked that site Larry, looks like lots of selection.  Some of the drawer slides sizes were on sale for 1/2 price.  A 32" Blum is marked down from $62 to $31 while the 30" is still at $59.  I imagine these are uncommon drawer depths or something?  I'll have to see if i can rig my built to take advantage and use one of those sizes :)  I'm referring to the 430E series, which looks to be their full extention line.  I read 75lb dynamic load, 100lb static.  I think that's probably ok but i'm open to comments.  The only issue is that i'm not sure how much my drawer itself will weigh.   I expect my heavy stuff will go in the bottom cabinets, not in the drawers.

http://ahturf.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=882_884_919


The hinges are giving me a headache.   :D   There are a billion different types and many of them look almost identical to me.   105degs, 107degs, 110degs... i can't believe it.   I'm thinking these guys:

http://ahturf.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=3279_3281_3315_4275_4339


Still thinking out the design.   Have to start putting some measurements to my little sketches and then work on a parts list to see what sort of costs are going to be involved.  I have a feeling all my grand plans may come crashing down and some sacrifices will have to be made at some point.

If i'm going to add dust collection system i'll almost certainly need a new circuit to handle the load.  Some of my tools already trip my breaker as is :(





WDH

BT's suggestion of a window exhaust fan is a very good one.  I have a large round shop fan about 2 1/2 feet in diameter in the back wall of my shop.  When i am sanding, the fan pulls a draft thru the shop and exhausts the fine dust outside.  You can stand on the upwind side of the draft and not have to breathe the fine dust.

As another option to what has been suggested, look at the Grizzly GO548Z.  It is 2 HP 220 volt with a 1 micron canister filter.  You clean the filter by turning the handle of the top, and it mechanically vibrates the pleats in the filter.  If you get a dust collector, I would say to definitely get one with the self cleaning cannister filter, not one of the bag filters.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/2HP-Canister-Dust-Collector/G0548Z
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Piston

Some great suggestions on here and great pics by BT.  Thanks for posting the links and additional info, regarding drawer slides and hinges.  I'll be following this thread as it looks like I may be in the same situation as you soon (building some garage cabinets). 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Larry

This is the Blum hinge I normally use for overlay doors.

Blum overlay hinge

Once the hinge is decided on you have to pick a mounting plate.  The mounting plate thickness determines the amount of overlay the door has.

Blum plates

The hinges are complicated and there are a lot of metric measurements to understand.  Once understood they are really simple child's play.  This is a pdf that will help.

Blum phamplet 

There is also a pdf for the drawer slides someplace.  You can find it with a search.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Hilltop366

If you don't want to pay the price for draw slides you could buy or make draw rollers, two rollers (could be a disc shape mounted horizontal) at the front of the frame and two at the back (top) of the drawer. They might not be as smooth as full extension slides but if you end up with lots of drawers it would save you lots of coin.

For sanding dust I have seen an picture of a sanding table, which was a double layered table table with holes in the top layer and an port to hook up the vac or dust collector not sure how well it worked, wondering if any one else has or knows of one.















lowpolyjoe

Thanks again Larry.  As it turns out, the ahturf site is not cooperating for me this morning, but i'll check out those links later.

Last night i found a PDF with some details about the drawer slides... which is good since i don't know anything about cabinet making :)  Might help Piston as well.

www.blum.com/pdf/BUS/2016_std_b/2016_std_b.pdf

Regarding the fan-in-the-window idea.  Sounds like a good plan, but i'm out of luck.  The side of the garage i will be remodelling has no windows :(    There are windows on the other side, but i have clear plastic sheet dividing the bays (2car garage) to keep most of the dust on my side.

Hilltop - i was very much considering building a sanding table for a while (if that's the right name).  I looked into some plans and it didn't look too hard.  Just some perforated sheet layer over an upside-down pyramid collection attachment - i think you can buy or make that attachment.   I was considering building something like that into part of the workbench surface in my remodel effort.

My biggest mess maker is my router.   I plunge route circular openings and countersinks in MDF all the time for the home theatre speaker cabinets i make.  It's messy business.  I have my shop-vac connected to the router with an adapter but it's not an elegant solution and the hose is always getting stuck while i'm routing and giving me problems.  I had a dedicated small vac with the correct size hose (without an adapter) and it was easier to manage, but the switch on that vac went out and i keep forgetting to look for a replacement.

Larry

MDF is probably about the hardest to get all the dust collected.  I hate the DanG stuff and try to avoid it.  Not much way to do that building speakers.

I tried the box fan trick.  I did collect some dust on the furnace filter but still had a lot settling out.  Tried to improve by putting in one of the really good furnace filters but it was no better.  Hung some survey tape streamers to see what was going on.  The makeup air bypasses the filter and goes in the front on the fan perimeter.  The thing is picking up some of the bigger particles but blowing around the small ones, which are supposed to be the most dangerous. 

The real air cleaner machines are much better.  After a day in the shop I let the cleaner run for a couple more hours.  Next day I don't see any dust settled out on the machines.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Tree Feller

Larry, what brand and type air cleaner do you have?

I really need to get one because I air condition my shop (almost a necessity for working in there during the summer) and it stays closed up. I have to filter all the air because if I exhaust it outside, the make-up air will be hot or cold, depending on the season.

When I clean the shop, I sweep, vacuum off all the tables and machines, open the overhead door and go at everything with a leaf blower. It's amazing how much dust is still left in there that the blower dislodges. That's the stuff that falls out of the air and it's also the stuff that is bad for the lungs.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

lowpolyjoe

Did a little sketching of some simple cabinet designs today, then tried to make a cutlist for a simple top-cabinet and bottom-cabinet.

Gonna take a lot more plywood than i thought  :D

I put together a cutlist for a simple top-cabinet design and it fits almost perfect into a single 4x8 sheet.   But i planned on making 8 of them  :D   I've got about 16' of wall run and i was figuring eight 2foot wide upper cabinet sections.  Maybe i'll just make 4 and put open shelving between a few of them  ;D    I've got all open shelving now and i'd rather be able to hide my mess and reduce the dust settling on everything.

I was also thinking maybe use 1/2" ply for the top cabinets and 3/4" just for the bottom stuff that's going to be load bearing (ie. the workbench, tools, project pieces, etc...)




T Red

Here is a cabinet design that I like. It's simple, cheap, and effective, I like cheap. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTvRMqwf1v8&list=UUEaIzMzCEkTy547iHSs2xUg&index=15

Mr.Paulk has many videos on his mobile wood shop design.  Just click on the Browse Videos on his YouTube page.

Tim

Larry

Quote from: Tree Feller on January 30, 2013, 02:07:06 PM
Larry, what brand and type air cleaner do you have?

I have a Delta.  I was thinking about a Jet when I found the Delta at half off...store return.  It has worked good, but is noisy on high.  Sometimes the remote wanders off but it always returns.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Hilltop366

Quote from: T Red on January 30, 2013, 05:28:06 PM
Here is a cabinet design that I like. It's simple, cheap, and effective, I like cheap. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTvRMqwf1v8&list=UUEaIzMzCEkTy547iHSs2xUg&index=15

Mr.Paulk has many videos on his mobile wood shop design.  Just click on the Browse Videos on his YouTube page.



Interesting idea, I would think that a 1/2" ply shelf with that design would need something to make it stiffer so it would not bend and fall out.

I like cheap too, My sister's neighbour is getting a new kitchen, I'm suppose to haul away the old one for him. We will see how it goes.

GeorgeK

Looks neat. I do wonder depending on weight if half inch is thick enough? I would think a screw head might wear the plywood out. How about a piece of plastic with a pan head screw recessed into the plastic? Great video wish I could run software like that.
George Kalbfleisch
Woodmizer LT40, twin blade edger, Bobcat A300, Kubota L48 and yes several logrites!

jueston

i've seen many garages that had old kitchen cabinets in them, if you build a sturdy top for them they make pretty good work benches.... and the price is usually right as lots of people just throw away there old cabinets, i guess the hard part is finding someone before they smash them to pieces...

T Red

Quote from: GeorgeK on January 30, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
Looks neat. I do wonder depending on weight if half inch is thick enough? I would think a screw head might wear the plywood out. How about a piece of plastic with a pan head screw recessed into the plastic? Great video wish I could run software like that.


I've wondered about the 1/2" bottom also.  Especially at 30" wide.

I think Mr.Paulk decided in later videos that the neither the haunch or the screw were necessary.  Keep in mind he designed this to go in a truck and didn't want the drawers to slide out while the truck is moving.  He stated later that just the friction of the plywood in the dado's was sufficient to keep the drawers in place. 
Tim

Al_Smith

If you watch flea bay often you can find full extension drawer slides rated at 100 pounds per pair fairly reasonable .They are a lot better than what Lowes and Home Depot sells .

Several years ago I made drawers with slides under all the kitchen base  cabinets .By some creative methods I even made some that were two doors wide.

So maybe a couple hundred in slides and plywood but a happy wife it's worth a whole lot more than that .If momma ain't happy nobody is happy .

lowpolyjoe

Funny that video should pop up in this thread - i was thinking all day yesterday that i should mock some designs up in Sketchup (pretty sure that's what he was using).

I've worked with it a little before.  It's a very valuable tool to see how something might look.  A lot easier to change things and realize fundamental flaws in your layout using the model than wasting time and wood.  My last model and final product - veneer work didn't go so well  :-[ but it looks pretty close to the model




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