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cut or buy

Started by Claimsman, January 27, 2013, 01:30:24 AM

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Claimsman

I'm a new member and have been thoroughly enjoying thumbing through the pages and many posts of this group.  My wife and I own a small farm in Ohio and we have roughly 100 mature trees we need to drop.  My fascination with sawing goes back decades and we've really thought through what to do with the trees.  This is a multipart question and all opinions are welcome  A few facts: of the trees, roughly a third are each...very tall, mature pines, decent cherry and tall, straight locust.  At the base, they range from 24 to 36 inches, give or take.  We've wanted to build a small post and beam building for our retirement there (15 years forward) but there's no time like the present to start (and there's an existing structure with a sound foundation we can repurpose 32 x 24.  I've always wanted a sawmill, but our place is in amish country so sawyers are prevelant and it's unlikely a small, mobile mill could generate much side work down the road.  I have overcome my concerns with how to dry the cut beams after reading many posts about the use of recently cut white pine for the structural members.  We're not looking to build a fancy stucture like the beautiful examples your talented members have posted, just something simple with one big room, a functional stone fireplace and a couple loft bedrooms.  My questions?

Can you mix woods for the structure (use locust for sill, pine for walls and roof structures or should the entire frame be from one variety?
My budget for a mill would be about 7500 bucks, can you get a used model in decent shape that will mill such beams (say 12x12 largest) for that amount?
Taking the fun factor and awsome nature of such equipment out of the equation, what would be the relative cost (ballpark) to have someone mill the trees into the needed lumber to build the structure, floors and roof? 
It looks like most of the units are mobile units, is there a significant advantage to a fixed one if not likely to be moved much? 
Finally, i see posts about hydraulic units...does that refer to how the log is loaded onto the unit or other functionality? 

My wife and I have taken on similar ambitious projects in the past and aren't concerned about the techical learnings, just trying to have a realisting understanding of the buy vs build proposition.  Thanks very much for your thoughts, questions are welcome.  Chuck

Ianab

Welcome to the forum.

I don't have all your answers, but to at least start with a few, you can probably buy a manual mill that will do the job you want, new, within your budget. Something like a EZ Boardwalk 40 or similar.Second hand you can probably get an even more capable mill. The size of the beam you are cutting isn't limited by the mill size (within reason). If you need a 12x12 you start with a 18"+ log, and saw away everything that's not a beam (Make normal boards from the outside, and simply leave the beam.

Manual vs Hydraulic?
Mostly it's about log handling. Loading, turning, leveling, clamping and usually saw head movement (though the log and up down adjust). All these functions on a manual mill are just that, manual. YOU do it. On a more automated mill it's push button or wriggle a lever. Difference is production. The automation allows you to spend more time actually cutting, and less time moving logs and adjusting things. But of course it costs more.

For personal use a manual mill would do the job, especially if you have a decent tractor / FEL to move logs with. If you are cutting commercially, you spend the extra and get the power everything, because you can cut twice as much in a day, and not have to work as hard.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Claimsman

Thank you, we've got a 30 hp loader that should pick up any logs we'd need so perhaps no hyd necessary.

Kansas

A couple of things. Are the Amish portable? Maybe they are, but I always thought they were stationary. If they are, that might give some advantage if you wanted to earn some side money to pay for the mill. You also would have the advantage of oversizing the beams, and then being able to smooth out any warp that happened during drying. Or if a cut has to be made to make something fit. With 100 trees, you will have far more than you need. One thing you will probably need to do is have a drying shed, if you don't have a suitable place. Of course, you can cut the lumber for that. You might look around and see if you have any  unusual species. You may as well have fun with it. The walls, floors, and ceilings. A sawmill would give you so many options. Guess a lot depends on what you value your labor at.

bill m

As for mixing species , yes you can do it. Your ideas of using locust for sills and pine for the frame and boards is fine. Maybe use some cherry for some accent trim, cabinets or use your imagination.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

VictorH

Hi Claimsman and welcome to the forum.  You may want to start a thread in the Timberframe section to help guide and answer questions you have about the structure you want to build.

Magicman

Hello Claimsman, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Many (most/all) of the older homes were built from a variety of lumber species.  My Grandparents home had some heart Pine, Ash, and whatever else for sills and the framework was Pine and Poplar.  Inside there was Pine as well as Cypress for wall paneling and lathing for plaster.  The ceiling in our home addition here is T&G V groove Poplar.


 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

red oaks lumber

mm
you never miss an opportunity to post a picture :)


claimsman welcome aboard!
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Claimsman

Thanks for the answers.  Couple of responses.  My research confirms the comment about the amish being fixed sawyers is correct and i couldn't find any mobile millers in my area.  Good news.  Also, I'm very glad to be able to mix woods, I like the thought of using the locust for sill plates to avoid moisture concerns (we're next to a river, don't flood but generally moist).   As for the worth of my time, i'm much happier busier than not so any time I'm doing something that either doesn't cost much or makes me a little and my hands are busy...that's well spent time. 


Magicman

Quote from: red oaks lumber on January 27, 2013, 05:22:33 PMmm,  you never miss an opportunity to post a picture :) 
Another Mississippian Dizzy Dean once said;  "It ain't bragging if you can back it up".   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Magicman on January 27, 2013, 06:47:41 PM
Quote from: red oaks lumber on January 27, 2013, 05:22:33 PMmm,  you never miss an opportunity to post a picture :) 
Another Mississippian Dizzy Dean once said;  "It ain't bragging if you can back it up".   :)

Like my Dad says..." Son, pictures will prove what you say about me when I'm gone." " But how about delete those last 2 !"  :D :D :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

red oaks lumber

my dad always said.. let others brag you up don't brag yourself up ;)oh wait that sounds like being humble :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Magicman

There is a distinct difference between bragging and sharing.

I am very hesitant about telling anyone what to do, but I will readily share the experiences that I have had and tell what I would do.  Everyone is free to decide for themselves what they should do.  If my experiences or mistakes can help someone else, then all is well.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

thecfarm

You know Magicman,I wished you would of brought a manual mill first,than you could tell others to buy a hyd mill.
Nothing a matter with a manual mill,I all ready posted. But I would not want to try to make money with my mill. Time is money.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

beenthere

Keep up the good work MM. Enjoy your input here.

A little bit of envy of your work ethics, but I'm sticking to my pace. :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

rooster 58

    MM, I enjoy your pictures and your posts, as well as your anecdotes ;)

uplander

 Welcome to the forum Claimsman. It's a good group here! I purchased my mill to build my house with and it has been a good experience for me. I could have bought a lumber package for what I paid for the mill but I would not have owned a sawmill after I had purchased the lumber :D

My house is built out of Poplar, Red Oak, White Oak, Ash and White Pine. A little bit of everything on my land.
Floor Joist's are Poplar and Oak. Wall studs are a little bit of everything listed above. They seem to all work good together.

I would think that something like a LT15 or LT10 would be a good fit for you and you get to own a mill afterward. If you decide you do not want to keep it used mills have a good resale value.

I hope this post is helpfull to you.

Uplander
Woodmizer lt40G28.  A kubota L4600 with loader and forks.
Various Stihl saws and not enough time to use them!
Finished my house finally. Completely sawn out on by band mill. It took me 7 years but was worth it. Hardest thing I have ever done.

Qweaver

I started with a good used WM LT15 and built a post and beam house with it.  I paid $4500 for it and sold it 4 years later for the same price.  But a used LT28 maybe within your budget and makes log handling and sawing much easier and the saw is portable.   
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

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