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vegtable oil in ice

Started by trapper, January 22, 2013, 10:22:11 PM

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trapper

I plan on using my ms290 for cutting ice for beaver trapping on federal land.  I am sure they frown on using regular bar oil so am planing on using vegtable oil.  Advice on oil and sharpening chain welcome.  I have a new bar and chain so am not concerned about modifying chain or wrecking bar.  Getting soft so plan on waiting to the end of the week when it is suposed to be more than 10 degrees F out.
thanks
Marv
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

HiTech

Somewhere in my travels I have seen bio-degrageable bar/chain oil. Supposedly environmentally friendly. Maybe it was at one of the woodsmen's field days. A saw dealer should know.

Al_Smith

Baileys sells stuff made by Oregon called Arboroil or some think like  that gets mixed with water .Although they didn't elaborate I assume it to be a gelling agent .

What is does is gell the water to a constancey of KY jelly ,no kidding .It's basically  the same stuff they use for making a commercial type of wire pulling lubrication called poly water .

That poly water is slick as snot on a door knob but once it evaporates leaves no residue behind .

thecfarm

Does vegetable oil freeze? I know you can keep the chainsaw in the vehicle,cut the hole and bring the saw back to the truck and all will be good.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

Veggie oil would get thick as pea soup .That water based stuff will freeze .

The Baileys blurb says it can be mixed with anti freeze but that would entail using a biodegradable type of which I have no info on .

Probabley it might be best to ask whatever agency has juristiction over that federal lands which they might recommend .Certainly not used crankcase oil I don't imagine .Maybe just an axe but that would kind of suck with a half life .

AdkStihl

Quote from: Al_Smith on January 23, 2013, 08:38:36 AM
Veggie oil would get thick as pea soup

More like suet actually  :)
J.Miller Photography

loggah

i had a pioneer p 51 with a 28" bar i used to cut ice with no oil in the saw,the water acts as the lube for the chain,the chain doesn't have to be super tight.This was cutting blocks of ice behind the flash boards at a hydro plant ,about 100 yards across . we had to keep the ice from freezing to the flash boards. My friends who own the hydro dam have since put a bubbles system in so they dont have to chainsaw  much anymore.he other thing you want to do is cut with the top of the bar ,it will keep you a lot drier ! ;D Don
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

Al_Smith

I've never done it but can imagine that cutting ice with a chainsaw would not be a pleasant experiance .Dang cold I'd say .

Eeeyow ,wear an immersion  suit ,get covered with water and freeze up like a statue .Ooffta !

loggah

Rain gear was a necessity ,at least pants and rubber boots. i wore my logging corked boots,you dont want to be slipping on wet ice with a running chainsaw.
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

Offthebeatenpath

I've cut ice with vegetable based bar oil but only a few times to check ice thickness.  Although I run veg based oil in the warmer months whenever I'm in or close to the water, building timber bridges, etc, it does thicken up a bunch in the cold. Can hardly pour it in single digit temps or lower.  Husky, Stihl, and a number of other brands make a vegetable based bar oil option for bars, but it costs $25 a gallon give or take.  The Stihl stuff says it works well in cold temps.  I just bought a gallon but haven't put it to the test yet.

I like what Loggah said about the water being lubricant enough, but it can't hurt to add the veg oil, even if its too cold to flow, it won't do any harm other than making you chain hard to turn till it gets warmed up.
1985 JD 440D, ASV tracked skid steer w/ winch, Fecon grapple, & various attachments, Hitachi CG-30 tracked dump truck, CanyCom S25 crawler carrier, Volvo EC35C mini-ex, Kubota 018-4 mini-ex, Cormidi 100 self loading tracked dumper, various other little trail building machines and tools...

Al_Smith

The saw might warm up but I'll bet the sawyer might freeze up mean while .Brrrrr!

trapper

Thanks all. I wear chest waders and long rubber gloves.  I also wear cleats on my wading shoes.
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

HolmenTree

There was a faller in our logging camp back in the 1970s who never ran bar oil in his saw in the winter. He claimed the snow was enough lubricant for the b/c. Our timber was small diameter and the old Jonsered 621 which most of us used at the time didn't put out the chainspeed as the newer pro saws do now.

I have cut lake ice up to 4 feet thick with a 60" b/c and I found the water from the ice was enough lubricant, I just turn off the oiler to prevent damage to the oiler .

Veggie oil ? I swear by canola oil in my work saws for my tree service. It will freeze solid in extra cold temps but I shut the business down in the coldest months anyway,  Dec, Jan, Feb.
Have running regular bar oil most of my cutting life I have found it's oil mist has hurt my lungs, I took all kinds of tests from the doctor, since having switched to canola oil for the last 8 yrs my breathing has improved big time.
Saved a fair ammount of coin in those 8 yrs too, $5 gal for canola at the local grocery store.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Jeff

The guys up here that use chainsaws for cutting spearing holes and such, remove all the bar oil from the saw. its not necessary to add lubricant when what you are cutting IS a lubricant.


Oops, didn't see the previous post. 

What loggah said. :)


Thats also how we had to prep the saws to get this fixed about 13-14 years ago.





Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

loggah

YeowWWWW!! , that ruins your day !! looks like a fairly new machine to. I been stuck a few times ,But never in like that !! ;D
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

Al_Smith

Hmm either quick sand or that hole they talk about going clear to China .Ugh what a mess .

beenthere

Gary_C had such an experience a few winters back. Similar to the pic Jeff showed.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jeff

That was the back waters of a pond. It was on an aspen cut, and part of the sale included this "Island" of aspen that the skidder operator decided to go out and look at at the end of the workday, to potentially go out and cut. That was a real cold stretch of weather, and he figured the water was froze. Most anyone knows, that anytime there is a bunch of vegetation coming up through the ice, it probably is going to be a lot weaker there. Everybody but him I guess. The dirty looking ice, is from him churning up the bottom, throwing dirt up on the ice. 

He was there all along at that point, everyone else went home. The idiot went home, and never said anything to anyone until the next morning. That night it was like 20 below zero. It froze the whole thing in.  I think if you search the forum with the word "Nemo"  you'll find where I related the story a long time ago.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Al_Smith

So what it take a D8 with a winch to snatch it out ?

Jeff

It was a great big wrecker that pulled it out with a 100 ton winch, They tried pulling it with the other skidder, and that just wasn't going to get it.  Believe it or not, it was in our mill shop just a couple days before our mechanic had it running and back on the lowboy to go back to the woods.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Al_Smith

The poor skidder probabley took on a couple hundred gallon of swamp water in the process of it's little ordeal .

JuniperBoss

Use some of that bio-degradable oil that Stihl makes. I wouldn't ever try veggie oil, just because there is no need to when there is real, trusted bar oil around.
"The three great essentials to achieve anything worthwhile are, first, hard work; second, stick-to-itiveness; third, common sense." --- Thomas Edison

trapper

Put a bottle of canola oil outside this afternoon.  It is 10 degree out now and when I checked so far it has thickened very little if any.  I will check again in the  morning but dont plan on being out there any colder than this. 
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

Slab Slicer

No bar oil needed for this saw. Problem solved  :) I have one hanging in the shop. Sharpened, and ready to go.



 
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

Al_Smith

I wonder what would happen if you mixed corn starch and water together if it would gel up .They do it to make pie filling with warm water ,maybe cold would work too .Mix up about a quart and use the rest to make a cherry pie or something .

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