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Log arch advice?

Started by Bru, January 13, 2013, 05:45:01 PM

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Bru

I'm expecting to be needing a log arch long before I acquire the welding skills to make one. Logs will range in size up to 30" or so in diameter, could be anywhere from 8-20'.  Will be sawing some on a Woodmizer LT28, so ability to back up over the bed and unload would be a plus.
Any experiences or comparisons between, e.g., the Logrite, the Boardwalk ATV log arch, and the Mister Sawmill log arch would be very much appreciated.
I'm in southern Illinois, so I expect shipping cost will also be a major factor in price.
Thanks, all.

beenthere

Remember, Logrite is a Forum sponsor.
Are the others?

You won't beat the Logrite for quality.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Magicman

Boardwalk's site list Logrite arches.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

gspren

  Hud-Son, one of our newer sponsers also has arches.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

bama20a

It is better to ask forgiveness than permission

Bru

 I think I understand the high degree of deference given to sponsors.
Can anyone suggest another site where I can try to find answers to my questions?
Thanks

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Bru

Before asking here, I googled and looked online at every US-manufactured arch I could find, in order to reduce the number of candidates. I also searched, as best I could, on this site for previous useful comments.

I have emailed all 3 manufacturers (or their respective dealers) requesting full specs on each brand; it will be interesting to see if they all provide enough info for comparison.
For example--as mentioned in one of the above responses--Boardwalk's site lists Logrite arches. Boardwalk also markets another arch at in the $1000-1200 range which looks similar; it would be useful to compare the quality and utility. Both advertise here--see left of page.

I hope I haven't stepped in some sort of taboo pile by asking for info about potential competitors, only 2/3 of whom are advertisers here. I don't want to get into one of those brand / color/ loyalty opinion swaps. I just wanted to know which would or would not meet the needs noted in the first paragraph of my original post.
No further questions.

beenthere

QuoteLogs will range in size up to 30" or so in diameter, could be anywhere from 8-20'.  Will be sawing some on a Woodmizer LT28, so ability to back up over the bed and unload would be a plus.

Have you found an arch that will take a 30" diameter log that is 20' long, and carry it high enough to back over the bed of an LT28? 

What height would be needed for that to happen, and what width would be needed between the arch tires?
Seems these are the two basic questions you want answers to. That will be a large arch.

Until you mentioned it, I didn't interpret your OP to be that specific. Sorry. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Magicman

Mentioning other brands is not some kind of taboo here.  Intentionally trashing any brand, especially a sponsor could be.

I also did some Google searches before replying and quite frankly did not find anything that might fit your stated need but a Logrite.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

gspren

   Bru, we were just mentioning some brands for you to contact with questions. At a local Farm Show I picked up a Hud-Son catalogue and I see that they started make log arches but I know nothing about them. If you discover a brand we don't know about please share it.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

caveman

 Bru, welcome to the forum.  Logrite's arch should work great but may not accomplish what you ask of it--I doubt many manufacturers' products will.  You may be able to get a welding or fabrication shop to build one to your specifications.  The pictures of the one below are of one we built.  It does okay but probably needs some modifications to work as well as one that was engineered by someone with experience with such things.  If I am going to continue to use it for tree length logs, I will need to add a couple of gussets and do a better job of aligning the wheels. 
Caveman

  

 
Caveman

bill m

30" dia x 20' long is a big stick. I don't think you could find something that would handle that size for $1200. My guess would be double that.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

thecfarm

I've seen some being used on level ground  ::)  Yes,that looks good,but try that in the woods on uneven ground,going over stumps and rocks. That's a true test to an arch.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

bill m

One thing you have not told us is how you are going to move this arch? Truck, car, tractor, atv, by hand?????
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Bru

All the replies and requests for more specificity in the OP are appreciated. 
How I intend to pull it? : depends on how heavy the load is. I have a 4WD Kubota L35 and an ancient Dodge 2WD PU available, and I suspect that a 4-wheel UTV is somewhere in the future.
Log sizes: Since the WM L28 maxes at 32" dia., odds are that 30" is as big in diameter as I'll go. Length?: Odds of a 30" diameter which is 20' long are pretty slim, but I expect to be making some 20'long beams and rafters, etc and would like to be able to hang the heavy ones up in the air to move them if necessary.
(I keep seeing the dandy photos of  manufactured arches with long balanced loads, and being reminded that without either visual scale or specs, the photos sell, but don't tell).  I do thank whever sent me the link to the previouos review of 2 Logrite arches, with some specs!
Lifting height:  I must admit that my thought of unloading directly from the arch onto the table of the WM mill was what's sometimes known as a symptom of craniorectal inversion syndrome.  The height of the WM would indeed make for a tall---and probably custom-made-- arch.  Thanks for straigntening me out on that! ( ...popping sound as craniorectal inversion is forcibly corrected)
On a more practical level, I'd appreciate info from those who've been there with any of the three manufacturers I've listed re such things as:
    Experiences with loads and overloads in terms of weight or speciies and log size;
     Experience in lengths and weiights of logs transportable with both ends free of the ground;
    Problems, successes, or recommendations re attached winches, chains, cables;
    Distruption of soil surfaces due to inadequacy or tires or overweight of loads
    Durability of construction, and co-operation of the maker in satisfying you
Thanks, all!

Andy White

BRU   Having just recently set up my new mill, and homemade log arch,I can tell you that loading a log onto the deck of an LT28 will take some extreme design and fabrication. My Woodland Mill is set up at ground level on 4"x6" timbers, so I built my arch to suspend a 26" log with 16" clearance above ground. This lets the bottom of the log clear the bunks 6". The inside wheel to wheel is 42" to allow room to straddle the rails of my track. Then, I first used a 1500# worm gear hand winct to lift logs in the arch. This worked really well except it was very slow. I have just recently added a 12V electric 3000# utility winch, and now the line speed is good for loading and turning cants on the bunks. I did ballance the log in the arch and hook a belly chain under it to keep undue strains off the winch cable.Now that the battery box is mounted on the tongue of the arch,the tongue weight was slightly more than I was comfortable with ,so I built a dolly to manuver the arch onto the mill. This setup works so well, that I do not have to hook it to the ATV to load the mill. I don't think and commercially produced arch will have the clearances that you would need to load the LT28.
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

barbender

If you think you can buy an arch that will set a 30" log on top of the bed of an LT28 that is approximately 24" high, you may indeed be suffering from a "craniorectal inversion" :D Just giving you a hard time, but I would suggest just finding an arch that can haul those size logs at all, and then worry about getting them on the mill.
Too many irons in the fire

Sixacresand

My arc welding skills leave a lot to be desired, resembling pigeon poop, but they are holding .  This is the arch I built last year.  It handles a 24 inch x 17 ft logs OK hooked up to a Sears Tractor. I plan to build another one, more heavy duty.  I want it about 7' tall, at least 48" inside and with larger tires.  The extra height will allow me to use a chain hoist.  The extra height and width will allow moving stacks of stickered lumber.   And also to lift/turn large logs on a manual mill. 



 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Bru

Sixacresand:
  Your arch design has a lot going for it, especially the ability to balance longer logs; thanks for posting the photo. How many HP is the lawn tractor, and is it geared or hydrostatic transmission? (queue of future projects includes replacing engine on geared ~ 1980 Simplicity 5010 and, now, adding trailer hitch to same...)
   I start Welding 101 at local community college next week, hoping to at least get the fundamentals learned.  Looks like I also need to make friends at the junkyard.

barbender

Good on ya' for taking the welding class, it's a skill that will open up a lot of possibilities.
Too many irons in the fire

Ed_K

 Yes, I did the same yrs ago and glad I did.Pay special att. to the welding upside down  ;) .
Ed K

clww

That's a great idea-taking a class. I plan on doing some classes in the future on my GI Bill.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

shinnlinger

Hi,

It sounds like some like dropping the log right on the mill from the arch but making an arch that can do that could be problematic.

I might suggest instead a dead deck (2 6x6s) next to the mill with ramps to roll the logs onto with a peavy or winch and then you can peavy onto the mill as necessary.  A deck allows you to build/buy a simply arch and to stockpile on the deck  Rarely do you only get one log from a tree and it might be nice to be able to get the bucked up tree out of the woods and on the deck all at once vs taking one from the woods, milling, stacking/sticking, covering,taking one from the woods, milling, stacking/sticking, covering, taking one from the woods, milling, stacking/sticking, covering etc.

Another advantage of the deck is it protects your mill.  Run into it backing the arch and the very least you knock it out of level and you have to stop and re level.  the big risk is of course damaging the mill with your tractor.  It is very easy to simply roll the logs from the deck onto the mill with a peavy or cant dog.

my two cents.

Have fun welding!!!
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Sixacresand

Quote from: Bru on January 18, 2013, 12:47:29 PM
Sixacresand:
  Your arch design has a lot going for it, especially the ability to balance longer logs; thanks for posting the photo. How many HP is the lawn tractor, and is it geared or hydrostatic transmission? (queue of future projects includes replacing engine on geared ~ 1980 Simplicity 5010 and, now, adding trailer hitch to same...)
   I start Welding 101 at local community college next week, hoping to at least get the fundamentals learned.  Looks like I also need to make friends at the junkyard.

Bru, The lawn tractor is 18 HP and geared transmission.  Nothing special.  Good deal on the welding class.  Having the capability to weld stuff together is great. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

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