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Started by dgdrls, January 12, 2013, 11:22:13 AM

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dgdrls

February 2013

"Inside America's Last Steam Powered Sawmill"
Oregon's Hull-Oakes Lumber Co,

Looks Like it will be a dandy read!! ;)

DGDrls

Al_Smith

FWIW either the History channal or Discovery had a little blurb about that mill a few years ago .

sawguy21

That was a very interesting program.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

steamsawyer

I was watching some videos of that sawmill on youtube last night. There are quite a few, and that is really quite an opperation... I want a job there, maybe tending the boiler or engine... I've said it before, I was born in the wrong century!  ;D ;D

Alan
J. A. Vance circular sawmill, 52" blade, powered by a 70 HP 9 1/2 x 10 James Leffel portable steam engine.

Inside this tired old mans body is just a little boy that wants to go out and play.

Great minds think alike.....  Does your butt itch too?

Alan Rudd
Steam Punk Extraordinaire.

Jeff

If you do a search here, you should find quite a bit of documentation.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Kingcha

a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

bandmiller2

Sometimes whats old is new again.With the cost of petro fuels and electric, steam power just may be the cheapest.Theirs always waste biofuel around a mill.An efficient steam engine like a Skinner uniflow hooked to a big generator to run mill machinery waste steam to heat kilns and office space.Years ago many factories had there own power then came cheap easy electric.When everyone switched they raised the electric rates. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

fishpharmer

Frank C., I tend to agree with you about steam being cheap if you have fuel.  Seems like the "green" way to go.  I wonder if a super efficient solar boiler/steam engine could potentially be built using modern materials.  Haven't heard of any R & D in that area.  Must admit I have a fascination with the "old" steam engines and the machines it powers. 
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

dgdrls

Quote from: bandmiller2 on January 12, 2013, 08:51:56 PM
Sometimes whats old is new again.With the cost of petro fuels and electric, steam power just may be the cheapest.Theirs always waste biofuel around a mill.An efficient steam engine like a Skinner uniflow hooked to a big generator to run mill machinery waste steam to heat kilns and office space.Years ago many factories had there own power then came cheap easy electric.When everyone switched they raised the electric rates. Frank C.

Here in NY many of the paper plants and industrial sites had their own hydro-electric stations on site to power machinery.   Manufacturers decided to get out of the power gen business and make some easy money by divesting of the hydro's.   Paper plants are now gone except one I can think of,  Hydro's keep spinning and I keep busy.

DGDrls

Ianab

Several of the large mills here in NZ have wood fired boilers / steam generators.

This is a write up on the Waipa mill near Rotorua. They have 3.5mw generating capacity on site from wood waste. This lets them run the site (max draw of 5mw) one a 2.5mw supply line, and when the mill isn't operating they can sell 2.5mw of power back to the grid. Saves them approx $20,000 month in power.
http://www.eeca.govt.nz/sites/all/files/waipa-cogen-case-study-july-2007.pdf

OK
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

bandmiller2

Fishpharmer,the only way I know to get the pressure needed would be those big reflectors with a pressure vessel in the middle.Reflector would probibly have to be huge,its tough to get big power from solar.Anything modern would use a steam turbine to generate electric.Don't know how many acres of solar cell it would take to run a 50hp motor,might be better off with a big windmill. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Al_Smith

Well again the source of fuel comes down to cost and availabilty .Obviously in a big sawmill it's likely to be the waste wood which should be plentifull .

Fact I've mentioned before of Hoge Lumber in Newknoxville Ohio having a large electrical cogeneration plant supplied by wood waste .

Historically even 100 plus years ago they fired the steam yarding engines from waste ,bark etc .

In the case of Hull -Oakes had the old engine and boiler not already have been there the question might be is it profitable to install a steam system in this day and age .You have to tend the fire ,lots of maintainance etc .Something to consider .

Another thing ,say that old engine needs repair parts .You can't just trot off to Parts America or Autozone and buy them They have to be custom made because there are no repair parts available .It would take a well versed staff of millwrights and mechanics just to keep that mill in operation .I'd just about bet that in that mix are some really old hands still on the job too .More than a few are long of tooth and gray around the muzzle no doubt . ;)

captain_crunch

Now as Paul Harvey would say the rest of the story
The engine running that mill came from R.A. Chambers mill here in Lorane Old mill site is located on my friend Duane Coop's property about 3 miles south of where I live. In their day there was about 30 miles of rail road between the woods and his 2 mills. Lots of the old grade still can be found. Will have to get a pic of concrete bunker engine sat on beings it is still there. My Belsaw was originally set up about 500 yards from where the big mill was :P :P The one thing I always wanted was a picture of the tressle that was at far end of his property not much of it left but when we were kids we use to fish off it
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Al_Smith

It probabley goes without saying that in different areas of this vast country the "ruins " of a bygone era could tell quite a story if they could only talk.

Years ago on occasion you could stumble accross concrete foundations left from a period this area was a high producing oil field. Unfortunatley those who really knew have long since passed on.
In addition on even more rare occassions some rare times you could stumble over what at one time was a back woods hardwood mill that were never as large as the west coast giant mills but were numerious at one time. Fact some might  still be there in a rather rusty condition.

I knew of three at one time but have no doubt since the Chinese tried to corner the market on scrap metal most likely some scrapper took the torch to them by now .

mad murdock

That is petty cool CC, any chance of salvaging that engin that is still there? We do a bit of work for Hull-Oakes, they have a sizable tree farm adjacent to and behind the mill several hundreds maybe a few thousand acres not sure on total size, thy give free tours. The main engine I believe is 106 hp and was forged and manufactured in Portland. The little boat that the pond bronc uses to wrangle logs to the infeed chain to the debarker is a neat little boat. They are one of the last mills on the west coast that can take large logs. They can mill beams over 80' long. Quite the operation, and real nice folks!
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

KnotBB

To ship an 80' timber on the railroad it would take three flat cars.  The center car, 50' carried the load and the two end cars, 40' each, were just to reach under the timbers so the center car could be pulled. 

If you need a long timber Hull Oaks is the place to go.  If you have to ask the price you don't need it.
To forget one's purpose is the commonest form of stupidity.

Al_Smith

As a matter of fact if I'm not mistaken a local resteraunt did in fact get long timbers from Hull -Oakes .Massive things maybe 40-50 feet long of Douglas fir used to rebuild a massive barn like structure after a fire .

Big timbers and planking is a niche market .Certainly not what the average lumber buyer would purchase .Just to find the logs to make the stuff would likely be a challange not to mention cutting them out and shipping them .

Rarely ,maybe several times a year I've seen flat cars on the railroad with big timbers ,all covered up with protective tarping .Where they come from or where they are going I have not a clue .Somebody some place must have a use for them though .

I'm thinking they would about have to be coming from the west coast because I'm not so sure you could find a large enough tree on the east coast you could cut timbers that span an entire flat car .

Al_Smith

Quote from: mad murdock on January 14, 2013, 02:04:59 AM
The main engine I believe is 106 hp and was forged and manufactured in Portland.
If I'm not mistaken 1 steam horsepower is 34,500 BTU per hour .Lawdy can you imagine hand stoking that boiler .

bandmiller2

They just tore down a local paper recycling plant, completely run by steam.They had a 350 hp Fitchburg steam engine,that would surely spin a saw if you could feed it. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

steamsawyer

Hey Frank,

Do you know what happened to the engine and boiler? There would be lots of big equipment and hardware in a place like that. ;D

Alan
J. A. Vance circular sawmill, 52" blade, powered by a 70 HP 9 1/2 x 10 James Leffel portable steam engine.

Inside this tired old mans body is just a little boy that wants to go out and play.

Great minds think alike.....  Does your butt itch too?

Alan Rudd
Steam Punk Extraordinaire.

bandmiller2

Alan,don't know for sure,but the fella that owned the plant had several outhers and valued old machinery.The chief engineer there is a friend of mine I almost had a nice Ames 35hp steam engine coupled to a alternator,but the owner decided he was going to make a museam with the old machinery.Don't know if he did or not,may have to look into it. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

steamsawyer

That's cool too. I hate to see old historical stuff go for scrap. There are lots of collectors out there with deep pockets, and to some of them bigger is better.

Speaking of steam engine generators... Here is a picture of one I have. It is made by General Electric, about 1907. 4kw 120volt DC. The picture was taken by Harry Mathews some years back when I was set up at the Zolfo Springs engine show.... Guess I need to take some more up to date photos.



 

Alan
J. A. Vance circular sawmill, 52" blade, powered by a 70 HP 9 1/2 x 10 James Leffel portable steam engine.

Inside this tired old mans body is just a little boy that wants to go out and play.

Great minds think alike.....  Does your butt itch too?

Alan Rudd
Steam Punk Extraordinaire.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Can you make ICE CREAM with it Alan? :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

steamsawyer

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on January 15, 2013, 02:26:22 PM
Can you make ICE CREAM with it Alan? :)

I suppose I could if I had an electric ice cream freezer with a DC motor.  ;D

Believe it or not... The guy across the isle and to the right of me at this show brings a display of antique ice cream machines, maybe 35 to 40 of them. Every year he hooks one up to a model steam engine and makes some ice cream. I think I have pictures some where.  :D

Alan
J. A. Vance circular sawmill, 52" blade, powered by a 70 HP 9 1/2 x 10 James Leffel portable steam engine.

Inside this tired old mans body is just a little boy that wants to go out and play.

Great minds think alike.....  Does your butt itch too?

Alan Rudd
Steam Punk Extraordinaire.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: steamsawyer on January 15, 2013, 03:27:47 PM
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on January 15, 2013, 02:26:22 PM
Can you make ICE CREAM with it Alan? :)

I suppose I could if I had an electric ice cream freezer with a DC motor.  ;D

Believe it or not... The guy across the isle and to the right of me at this show brings a display of antique ice cream machines, maybe 35 to 40 of them. Every year he hooks one up to a model steam engine and makes some ice cream. I think I have pictures some where.  :D

Alan

That's why I asked. I saw one at the fair YEARS ago. An old engine just makes better Ice Cream.  cone_1
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

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