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circle saw teeth- again!

Started by Bert, January 10, 2013, 08:16:29 AM

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Bert

Hi all! I've read many discussions on type of circle saw teeth on the forum but none really have an exact match to my operation. Let me describe what we are doing and let me know your thoughts. We are running a frick handset mill currently. We've been sawing on it for over 15 yrs. My father set it when I was pretty young. Hes been around mills his whole life and everyone runs carbide teeth so naturally that's the best route in his eyes and he wont hear of anything else. About a year ago, we ran into some problems with our saw of 14 years. It started wobbling. Not bad but enough to aggravate you. After a couple trips to the saw doc with no appreciable results we dug another blade out of our treasure pile. It had standard teeth in it. it ran so nice and true (to my surprise). The teeth in it were about shot but it still cut good. The old man insisted we change the teeth right away to carbide. SO we did. IT still ran good and I was so impressed with how well the saw stood up I didn't even think about the teeth. Now a year later and on our third set of teeth I'm wondering if we should just go back to the standard tooth.  The saw still cuts good, but in my head I seem to remember the standard teeth having a smoother feel. We saw logs with the bark on. Mixed hardwoods from 8"- 25ish" diameter up to 14' in length.. They are usually somewhat dirty or icy. What tooth would you run? Let me just say theres no problem with power, cut, blade, or alignment. Just looking for that "smooth" feel I remember without grinding teeth a lot.
Saw you tomorrow!

Meadows Miller

Gday Bert

And Welcome to The Forum if I have not already said Gday Mate  ;) ;D ;D ;D 8)

Im going to have to agree with your old man Mate I love Tct Saws both insert and solid their about the best smooth running tooth style you will ever get but they will feel and act like they are not running smooth or running hard  if you dont keep a good keen edge on them though  ;)

But this is sawmilling and the beauty is everyone has the type of saw or style of tooth they like to use and prefer to run in this game so I am sure the others will chime in with their opinions  ;)


Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

bandmiller2

Bert,carbide is good but brittle and its hard to get a fine sharp edge.By all means install standard bits you should not only cut smoother but pull less HP.What pattern bits and shanks are you using.?? Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Bert

we are running arsaw super bit bf- 8/9 -9/32. Just recently put in the arsaw bits. i ran other brands of carbide but they are all seem similar. The shanks are simonds.
Saw you tomorrow!

Jim_Wahl

Hi Bert,

Can you tell us what you are using to sharpen with?
1997 Peterson 9" WPF since 1998
2004 Baker 3667D since 2014
Cooks Catclaw sharpener and setter



I am from Iowa, but I seem fine.

loggah

I have carbide tips on my shingle mill, they are more forgiving on dirty wood ,but the will never cut as well as standard teeth,carbide just wont take a good edge,a sharp carbide is like a semi dull high speed steel. Don
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

Bert

We use a jockey grinder. Thats part of the reason i dot just get a new set of standard teeth to try. Id need to change the wheel for the grinder also.
Saw you tomorrow!

beenthere

Bert
And the biggest problem may be switching Dad to the idea. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Bert

yeah thats kind of what im up against. I hate to go through the trouble and cost of switching over just to hear i told you so. Im open to experiments- him not so much. we are sawing about 4000- 5000 bf a day/ 3 days a week.
Saw you tomorrow!

Ron Wenrich

I never had any experience with carbide, so I'm not much of a help.  I haven't been all that pleased with Simond bits in the past.  They don't seem to be able to keep an edge in some of our hardwoods. 

I do know of a father and son mill where they used carbide on their saws.   They started out making pallets, but moved up to windows and doors.  I believe their capacity was about 30 Mbf per month. 

Chris seems to have had much success with the Arsaw bits, and he says you can even hit some metal.  Keeping an edge isn't as important as keeping a sharp corner.  Chrome teeth out of the box don't feel very sharp, but they will cut a long time.  When you file them, you'll get a sharp tooth, but it might not cut as long, as the chrome wears off. 

Can't help you with your Dad.  Maybe he'll allow you to change the teeth in one of the edger blades as an experiment. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Meadows Miller


The Super Bits from Arsaw are awesome and I know I am onto a winner and have been for years but I am also running brased on tips on solid saws in the new mill and the Lucas and you can get good and bad batches of Carbide with them plus they are more costly to own and maintain here too thats why all My mills will be running Inserts in due course  ;) I have hit a fair bit of metal in logs and recycled timbers including warf pilies with them it comes down to the feed speed and what you have hit my worst  was  3/4 or 1" dai spikes that the debolter had missed  >:( at top speed for that type of cut and I only lost about 4 teeth I hit a heap of nails though in the recycled  ;) i use to stop and check if i had any missing or damamged one or two but now keep sawing if the saw sounds and runs like its not missing too much of one or any  ;)

As others have said carbide is a Brittle but it is a very hard wearing compound with long times between re sharpening 5 to 25000bft depending what you are cutting in unbarked logs but when I have been running it in production situations Ill touch up once a day when I knock off regardless and once at lunchtime when you are getting into the higher figures as Id prefer to keep a keen edge than push it  ;)



I have also tried Stellite saws in the Insert saws and they ran well but where more costly than the Arsaw bits and was a stop gap as I had run out of tct bits

put it this way if your keen to try the std metal bits you can try them as its only $120 to $150 for a box of 100 bits but I will think you will find you are getting a longer run between re sharpening with the tct bits  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

bandmiller2

Bert,old folks get set in their ways[don't ask how I know] and you might as well shovel sand agenst the tide.Only way is to let pops think its his idea,how you lead him into that is up to you,good luck. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

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