saw job price...

[Woodkiller]

I just got a lead on a job near my house, about 15 miles. He has between 500-800 logs he wants cut into cants. He is going to stage them in 20' lengths. I am new at this and am NOT full time. I told him that I thought the most fair way would be by the hour. I just wanted to be fair to the customer.  He is thinking about doing the offloading himself with a skid steer. Most of the wood is white oak, with some poplar and sweet gum mixed in. All he wants is to square them so they will stack better. Now what am I missing?

[WH_Conley]

White Oak at 20', if they are pecker poles they will move all over the place. Probably have to cut everything oversize, then trim down. Course if by the hour it won't make any difference. If he doesn't understand tension wood he might get the wrong impression of your abilities.

[drobertson]

This sounds like allot of work if you need it, however, just going on my gut feeling, they are small young trees, and spells out a few frustrations for sure. Almost too many to mention,  what size will the cants be?

[Magicman]

Hourly rate is the only way that I would do it. 

[Woodkiller]

I have looked at the trees. They are all mature 18"-25+". He just wants them where he can move and stack them. I told him it would be best to mill them all the same size. He want the cants as large as the small end will allow.

[woodNthings]

Sounds like quite a large job for the part-time sawyer! Congratulations though.. thats good, easy steady work

[WH_Conley]

Being that big will eliminate a lot of the headaches about moving while sawing. Still will have turn after about every cut. There will be a lot of side lumber. At 20' placement on the mill will have to be watched closely. Not an impossible job, just will take awhile.

[WindyAcres]

15 miles, thats only 15$ or so for travelling expense- good start. Figure out your expenses (dont forget to charge a fee for hitting metal) and what you want to make an hour. I would charge by the hour because of the length of the logs.

Good luck, let us know how it worked out. I might have a job coming up, I will charge by the hour (resawing beams)

[Ga Mtn Man]

By the hour is the only way to go on this one.  This might be a good time to try out some 7° blades.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Does he know they'll start drying out and checking, much faster than logs?  It's one thing for you if he knows what he's doing and another if he doesn't.

Not sure what kind of mill you've got but some of those could be up in the 2 ton range.   Also 20' has to go on the mill just right or you can trim off some or he will be pushing on it with his machine while it's on your mill. 

[thecfarm]

20 foot logs? can you cut them that long? without having to slide them back? If you have to slide them back that will take some time. Just let him know that first. He may decide to go with 16.

[Kansas]

I would ask him what he is doing with the cants. What he wants to do with the side lumber, if anything. The reason I say that is, more than once, someone wanted 20 ft lumber. Then I discovered they planned on cutting them into 10 foot sections. We charge a lot more for a 20 foot board per board foot than a 10.  I find it odd he wants random size cants. I would wonder if he wasn't planning on cutting blocking out of it for heavy equipment stuff, but not 500-800 logs. If he only wants to square them, then those are going to be some heavy slabs. You will need the skid steer there.

[Bogue Chitto]

What kind of mill and support equipment do you have Wood killer?

[Jay C. White Cloud]

This customer makes me "skittish," and I have all the same questions, the others do.  I know the mill you run I think, a Timber King 2000, so you can handle the length/weight. I would get a signed contract on this one, with all your caveats, set up fees, travel costs, blade damage, rate (hour or bf.)

Does this client know what logs cut into random cants can do when they are 20' long?  Make sure he does.  I've seen to many clients try to blame a young sawyer for there own bad choices.  You are just trying to give him what he wants, but I'm not sure he knows.  I know others don't agree, but when sawing logs into cants, (that is out mainstay as timber wrights,) we make more money by the board foot.  On this job, that's four cuts, and your done, the way it is sounding.  How are you going to move the logs or will the client? Good luck.

Regards,

Jay

[slider]

I don't know what mill you have but if 20 ft is max then it's going to be tight .Tow boards with rollers make a big difference .Or a bed extension giving you some wiggle room would make it much easier .May be he has just picked 20 ft as a random number.I agree with the others,there is going to be issues on cants that long.

[Tom the Sawyer]

Woodkiller,

Given that we don't know what size of mill, and with an inexperienced sawyer working part-time and a guy with up to 800 20' white oak logs who wants various sized cants so  he "can stack them"...


  

If you can average 20 minutes per log (wishful) and $40 per hour 800 logs would take you more than 266 hours plus maintenance, blade changes, refueling, etc.  That would be more than $10,000 sawing time and if you worked 20 hours per week it would take you more than 3 months.  You'll need help removing 20' WO slabs
:-\ :-\

[Peter Drouin]

Hi woodkiller
I hope the guy can run a skid steer well, because he will brake your mill.
I don;t let no one near my mill with a skid steer, and I don;t care how good you are.If I need to Ill bring my JD, and I will unload my mill or load it :D I have been sawring for over 24 years and I would do it by the BF.
If your new then by the hr, good luck

[drobertson]

I agree with the rest of you folks, 20' is a challenge for sure, real quick footage if all goes well. Sounds like it will be multiple stacks,(that need to be Stripped)  and not forgetting any outside lumber that should be coming off stripped as well.  A contract would be in order, maybe even some form of deposit.  Part time work leaves room for delayed work days, equating to delayed payments.  All said this could be a very rewarding job. You will learn allot after 500 20' logs,  hope all goes well,,  david

[thecfarm]

And the other guy might learn fast too.  :D He might re think his sawing project.  ;D He may not realize the time that it will take. I've had a few GREAT  ;D  ideas until someone showed me the numbers. 

[Woodkiller]

I have a TimberKing 2000, and I made it clear upfront the price would go up if I have to supply the support equipment. When I said logs, I meant FULL trees. They will all make multiple can't at 20'. He wants to have this done by June, and I was upfront about being part time.I have a friend with a skid steer and he is up for the extra work.

[beenthere]

Sounds like you plan to go ahead with this.

I'd take the several comments offerred as some real good "heads up" advice.

In addition, I'd suggest moving to the site and agreeing to a day of sawing, by the hour, and paid at the end of the day. If additional days are still agreeable to both parties, then move on from there.

I see this as a learning experience that you won't want to be bound to, as well as the customer will soon learn that it wasn't such a great idea at the high cost.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hey WoodKiller,

I have read everyone's advice and I couldn't agree more with the general consensus.  In order of priority, if you had been one of my students, I would suggest the breakdown as follows:

• As "Beenthere" suggested, do not do this as a set contract.  Start with a contract to cover a set time period.  Then renegotiate based on what you learn from the first cutting period.  I would not do this job by the hour, only the board foot, plus expenses.  However, I know how long I take to do things and can charge based on my local market, accordingly.  By the bf for bolts into cants is a money maker most of the time.


• Your doing more than milling, your logging and staging for milling, that is a separate contract and can be hourly or by stump price. Plus equipment fees and expenses.



• You will need help and it is the safe thing to do.  I know when I'm working by myself the risk I take and the harm that can befall me.  Be sure you do too.
• Check your local market for prices.
• All contracts should be written with clear parameters of expectation.

Good luck! ;)

[Buck]

Hourly, Hourly, Hourly

[YellowHammer]

To me, this is a big job, and with big jobs, big things can go wrong so protect yourself in all aspects.  Do everything to get complete control of the project so if things go bad, you don't get hung out to dry.  Reserve the right to walk away at any time if things go sideways.
YH

[rmack]

I can't give you any advice on sawing, but I do know it's not the small jobs (of any sort) that can drive you under, it's the big ones.

I like the 1 day trial idea though, you and the customer will both get an idea of what you are up against... of course, your production should increase as the job proceeds. Getting paid to learn isn't the worst thing that ever happened to anybody.