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FARMA Knuckleboom Loader Problem -- Need Help

Started by DR_Buck, January 07, 2013, 08:34:15 AM

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DR_Buck

I have a FARMA 46D knuckleboom loader that I think has a problem.    I'm not sure if something broke and fell off or if the vertical post is lifting out of the base.  The pictures below show what I am describing. The gap is just over 1 inch wide.









I don't remember if there was another ring or some sort of shim where the gap is showing.  The manual is not very well detailed on how this part is assembled.  I'm wondering if a part broke out of here and 'fell off' or if the entire vertical post is lifting.   If it is lifting, then there must be some sort of locking ring that came off or broke.   I guess I am going to have to disassemble the loader to see what is going on.

Anyone with a FARM 46 or another FARMA model similar that has a picture of what this section is supposed to look like?  If you have taken one of these things apart and have suggestions on the best way to do it I appreciate any help.  I believe OWW has the next size up loader, which may be similar.   
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Do you have anybody who can watch it while you operate it and see if it is lifting?
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

bill m

Check the bearing at the bottom. If it is broken the mast will lift up like that.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

york

OK Bill,
i have the 4067 Farmi picker,almost same mod. as yours...

Tomorrow,will go look at and get pic. of,later albert
Albert

york

OOP`s not Bill.

Dr.you have something serious going on there-looked at mine and is down tight,no gap..

http://www.forwardingtrailers.com/Semi-Professional-Models/HK-4067/



 
Albert

DR_Buck

Quote from: york on January 08, 2013, 11:31:44 AM
OOP`s not Bill.

Dr.you have something serious going on there-looked at mine and is down tight,no gap..

http://www.forwardingtrailers.com/Semi-Professional-Models/HK-4067/



 [img width=550 height=368]

Thanks for the input.  The loader you posted is a FARMI.   My loader is a FARMA.

However, you are correct, I have something serious going on.  I just don't know what yet and probably won't get to take a good look at it before this weekend.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

OneWithWood

DR, I will take a look at mine tomorrow.  I need to process some firewood so I will be using the loader.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

brendonv

I have that loader.  I believe yours is lifting.  Let me see if I can find a pic, if not I'll take one for you tomorrow.
"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

brendonv

Sorry, mines a 51D, same chassis I believe.

These are the two best pics I have on file.



"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

brendonv

Those two pieces surely should be sitting against each other, I went outside and checked.

Please let me know how you fixed it, in case I run into the same thing.
"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

DR_Buck

Quote from: brendonv on January 08, 2013, 06:18:56 PM
I have that loader.  I believe yours is lifting.  Let me see if I can find a pic, if not I'll take one for you tomorrow.


No doubt about it.  It's lifting.      smiley_furious3      Now I'm going to have to figure out how to take it apart.    smiley_headscratch   Looks like I'm going to have to remove the boom first to make it more manageable.  Maybe Sunday, os sometime next week.   To many things going on this week.

Quote from: OneWithWood on January 08, 2013, 05:51:24 PM
DR, I will take a look at mine tomorrow.  I need to process some firewood so I will be using the loader.

Thanks Robert, it looks like 'brendonv' posted what I needed to see.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

brendonv

"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

lumberjack48

Looks like the brass bushing is working its way up, what ever holds the mast in place came lose.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

DR_Buck

OK,  I finally got around to trying to take the boom mast apart.   I used the forks on my skid steer to lift the boom off of the mast.  I just laid it back down on the trailer and tied it in place to keep it from falling over.   This way I did not have to remove any hydraulic lines.


Here is the loader with the mast removed.





This is the boom section.  This thing is really heavy!  You can see the groove where the snap ring fits in at the bottom.





This is a shot down into the base section with the brass bushing ring removed.   First thing I noticed was it is full of water and almost no oil.  :o   Reaching down inside I can feel the shim and snap ring that holds things together.  Neither appear to be broke.  I'll need to dissemble the base to really find out what the deal is.  My guess is I'm going to have to order a new snap ring for it.   Will probably have to email the factory in Estonia.





Before I go any further I added some key marks to the rotation gear shafts so I can keep my alignment.  Kind of like timing marks.    I know the boom was at 'center' when mast was pulled.   Just in case it moves, I'll be able to get it realigned easy.




I'll need to remove the bolts around the base ring to get in from the bottom to remove the snap ring and make repairs.   I'm not sure if the bottom is open or what I need to do when I get the base removed.  The parts diagram does not show any gasket or seal to keep gear oil in so I'm not sure what to expect.  I'm hoping to be able to work from the bottom with the base tilted toward the back of the trailer and put the mast back down in and replace the snap ring while it is tilted.  That way I won't need to remove any hydraulic lines on the turning gear cylinders.   Before I start  removing the base I need to make a run to Sears as I do not have a 30mm wrench to fit the bolts.

[/size]
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

brendonv

Thanks for the update.

Don't forget to check mcmaster.com for the snap ring.
"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

OneWithWood

Thanks for posting the pics and the blow-by-blow.  It is good to know this post will be here in the eventuality I find myself in the same predicament.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Holmes

It appears to me the biggest problem is the water. When the water freezes the ice can easily push the complete assembly up and out, or it could burst a steel wall. It will move , break, whatever is the weakest part. The seal that keeps the water out will need to be repaired or  your problem will continue.  Good luck.
Think like a farmer.

DR_Buck

Quote from: Holmes on January 22, 2013, 05:03:15 PM
It appears to me the biggest problem is the water. When the water freezes the ice can easily push the complete assembly up and out, or it could burst a steel wall. It will move , break, whatever is the weakest part. The seal that keeps the water out will need to be repaired or  your problem will continue.  Good luck.

My guess is that is what happened.  The last time I used it everything was OK.  Then we had a cold snap and temps went below freezing.  Next time I looked at it the mast was lifted.    According to the manual there is supposed to be an o-ring at the top of the bushing.  I don't recall seeing one.  I need to make a quick run out to the barnithis evening, I'll take a quick look at it when I go by.    Too cold to do anything more than a quick look.

UPDATE - It's cold outside!   Just checked the mast section and the o-ring is an oil seal and it is in place and has no damage.   There is nothing in the top section to seal out water   The mast fits down into a large brass bushing that in-turn fits into the lower section.   I'll have to fashion some sort of  'skirt' to cover where the mast mates to the rotational base section.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

brendonv

Mine must be filled with water too.  There is a nasty oily/water mix that drips out the bottom.  Just thought it was excess grease.  Weird.
"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

beenthere

No plug to remove to drain the oil/water provided? And a plug to remove to fill with new oil?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

DR_Buck

Quote from: beenthere on January 22, 2013, 08:18:48 PM
No plug to remove to drain the oil/water provided? And a plug to remove to fill with new oil?


There is a plug, just not on the bottom.  If you look at the last picture in my reply with the mast removed you can see it on the side.  There is another one on the opposite side as well.  They are at the middle of the base.  You would have to use a pump to get to the bottom of the base.   Probably one of those $9 Walmart plastic hand transfer pumps would work.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Holmes

I pulled the watery oil mix from my bush hog gear box with a piece of 1/2" pipe with my thumb over the end. Took 10 minutes but it was what I had at the time.
Think like a farmer.

Holmes

I only had a 3/4" hole to get the fluid out.  You can bail yours out with a dixie cup and a pair of needle nose pliers.

You may be able to use a  {roughly}, 4" to 6" fernco, {rubber,} clamp to seal the mast over the hub. Clamp it to the rectangle mast, seal any gaps with silicone and let the 6" over ride the lower hub
Think like a farmer.

york

DR,your skirt idea is a good one-just looked at my pic. and it does overhang a bit,guess lucky for me....You could take some 1/4 or 3/8th. plate,get your hole&weld her in place??

albert
Albert

DR_Buck

Quote from: Holmes on January 23, 2013, 06:53:52 AM
I only had a 3/4" hole to get the fluid out.  You can bail yours out with a dixie cup and a pair of needle nose pliers.

I was thinking more form the perspective of having it back together and pumping it out in the future.


Quote from: Holmes on January 23, 2013, 06:53:52 AM
You may be able to use a  {roughly}, 4" to 6" fernco, {rubber,} clamp to seal the mast over the hub. Clamp it to the rectangle mast, seal any gaps with silicone and let the 6" over ride the lower hub

This is a good suggestion.  I think I need to go bigger than 6" though.  Probably a 6" to 8".
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

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