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saw fading to the right while cutting

Started by norse, January 05, 2013, 06:36:13 AM

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norse

When I am cutting a log of any size bigger than a small limb the saw fades to the right a lot.  I can't get a straight cut from it.  What am I doing wrong?????

Seaman

I am not the saw expert by any means, but in my experience you will find the opposing cutters are sharpened at a different angle. Hope this helps.
Frank 
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Al_Smith

Could one of two things or both .The cutters aren't filed correctly and/or the bar rails worn to one side causing it to try and cut circles .

It's a known fact people have a tendency to file differently from one side of the chain or the other depending on weather a person is left handed or right handed .Probabley the easiest way to correct this is by using something like a Oregon file guide which is rather inexpensive .

thecfarm

norse,welcome to the forum. Just learning to file by hand? I went through the same doing the same thing more than 30 years ago. I FINALLY figured what I was doing wrong. When the motor is on the left I can do a much better job filing. I can get at the chain better. But when the motor is on the right I can't or don't do such a good job. I may take 2 swipes on the "left" side and take 4 on the "right" Keeps me on the straight and narrow path.  :D If I was you I think if you resharpen just the "right" side it might make it better. You may have to do the other side.If it cuts a little better,straighter, but still not there,do it again. You may be as bad off as me. I hope not.  :D  Try that first,if that don't help than get a guide or it maybe the bar.Stick with it,it does take time. I took a piece,or I really should say pieces by the time I got done,of fire wood and just kept filing and cutting. It helps alot to put the bar into the vise too. I can file out in the woods now. That took me a while to get use too also.I suppose you are marking where you start to file too.And that chain maybe so bad you may have to get another and start again.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

norse

Thanks

I thought that it was a sharpness issue I will go get a file. 

I just thought that the chain would last longer, I just bought the bar and chain (Oregon) new a couple of days a go and used for maybe an hour. 

Jeff

Norse, you can sometimes use a chain for 30 seconds and have it dull. Touch the ground once, or a little dirt patch or mud on the wood is all it takes. If you have a chainsaw, you need to have a way to sharpen it. Get a pack of files. :)
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Al_Smith

Oh heavens you gotsta have a file or maybe a dozen .Cheaper that way .

You have to learn how to file a chain if you own a saw .It's manditory .

thecfarm

I thought you was trying to sharpen it. Now I understand. Forget what I posted.  ;D  Keep them things out of the dirt. Here on my land if I hit the dirt,I will hit a rock. I try to put limbs under it,or cut down a ways and than roll it over.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

If you are cutting on the ground try as you might every so often you will kiss the dirt .You can roll stuff around with a cant hook or block it up but you'll still rock it every so often .

If the stuff gets hauled out and skidded you will pick up dirt and little stones .Just the way it is so ya gotsta learn to file or buy a lot of chains .

Filing a chain is just as basic as fueling the saw and adding bar oil .The only way to ever get good at is  to do it .

scully

Most likely if you look very close at the chain you will notice that the very point of the cutting teeth on one side is peened ever so slight . use a magnifier if you have to . also sometimes the outside of the tooth down the side will actualy be peened as well all it takes is nicking 1 little peble ! I have tryed to hurry on sharpening my chains before and not worn my specs ,only to have the saw curv off in my cut . Fortunatly when I can I take a few chains over to 1 of my saw guys and get a good machine edge put back on em .
I bleed orange  .

fuzzybear

I'll probably have some one say differently, but, try taking the chain off the saw and putting it in a vice to sharpen it.  If one side of the cutters is dulled more than the other it will make the saw cut off like you said. Try to keep them about the same length.
  I can file a chain on the saw and it will be sharp, put the same chain on a vice where it can not move even slightly and it will come out SHARP.  When you file, let the file do the work, don;t force it to cut.  Keeping the file straight and smooth through the cut is important. Most people will angle the file just slightly at the end of the cut, only about 1-2 deg, but it is enough to make the cutter "off" slightly.
  I always keep extra loops on hand out in the bush, one gets dulled, change it out and re sharpen later at the end of the day on the vice. I use orange string to mark those that are sharp.
   Since I changed to carbide impregnated chain I do A LOT less sharpening. I used to go through 3-4 loops per season, since the switch to carbide, I have only gone through 2 loops in 2 years.  The price for carbide Impregnated chain is at around $.24 a drive link now. IMO it is well worth the money if you are cutting in dirty conditions.
FB
I never met a tree I didn't like!!

beenthere

fuzzybear
QuoteI use orange string to mark those that are sharp.

Interested in what this involves. Care to expand on it a bit?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

thecfarm

fuzzybear,I saw some guy at work doing that. I never seen it done that way. Sounds good to me. This guy was doing it to help out someone that had no idea at all how to sharpen a chain. He kept bringing them in for this guy to sharpen. He did not need to learn how,he kept bringing them back to this guy.  :D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

JuniperBoss

My saw does fade sometimes. I think it's just because I have been filing by hand. The one side doesn't get filed quite the same as the other and the chain cuts through the wood crooked. It is never an issue while I cut firewood. I don't care if it cuts a little crooked, but i suspect my new electric sharpener will cure that.
"The three great essentials to achieve anything worthwhile are, first, hard work; second, stick-to-itiveness; third, common sense." --- Thomas Edison

fuzzybear

Quote from: beenthere on January 06, 2013, 02:29:03 PM
fuzzybear
QuoteI use orange string to mark those that are sharp.

Interested in what this involves. Care to expand on it a bit?
I keep at least 3 loops for each saw I use. When I dull one out I throw it into my saw box and grab a sharp loop off the rack I keep them hung on.  If it has an orange string on it, it tells me that I have sharpened it and it's ready to use.
  I found I got a lot more production by simply changing the chain when it gets dull. When I have time at the end of the day, I put the dull loops into the vice and sharpen, tie a string, and on to the rack with the other sharp ones.
Quote from: thecfarm on January 06, 2013, 02:37:48 PM
fuzzybear,I saw some guy at work doing that. I never seen it done that way. Sounds good to me. This guy was doing it to help out someone that had no idea at all how to sharpen a chain. He kept bringing them in for this guy to sharpen. He did not need to learn how,he kept bringing them back to this guy.  :D
I do the same thing for a couple of customers that order tree length fire wood to cut themselves. They always give me an extra $10 for doing this.  Here in the north chain runs $.58 a drive link for Oregon chain, so you learn real quick how to sharpen every last bit of cutter you have.  :D
FB
I never met a tree I didn't like!!

John Vander

I suppose that you put the dogs into the wood when bucking. The cutting line of the chain runs on a different line than the dogs. This offset angle causes the saw to pivot to the right (the dogs being the pivot point). Tilt the saw slightly to the right when you put the dogs into the wood, but with no pressure on the top of the saw. Let the weight of the saw carry it through. This will result is a straight cut.
Tree and saw accidents nullify years of forestry experience.

CTYank

Free-hand filing just won't cut it.  :D Seriously. No matter all the protestations to the contrary. Just too many variables for a mere human to contend with.

Best way I've found, and many say the same, is Granberg's file guide, which clamps on the bar. Easy to maintain precise angles and heights. Often a touch-up will involve only a couple of strokes per tooth. Been using the same one for 30+ yrs.  :new_year:

Don't let the cutters go too long with one side dulled. You'll wear the bar rails unevenly.

You can check the trueness of the bar rails by removing the chain and setting a precision square on the rails, then seeing if the other leg of the square is parallel to the bar. If not, it's really easy to true up the bar with a bench grinder. Set a rest so the bar is perpendicular to the face of the wheel, and take light passes until the wheel touches both rails.

Always watch the wood chips. When they turn to dust, it's past time for filing.
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Ianab

A real expert can hand file a chain to sharper than new...

But the rest of us mere mortals, some sort of guide makes it MUCH easier and the results more consistent.  ;)

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

John Vander

A filing guide is good for keeping the right angle. Important to file the top plate too with a flat file to take off the burrs.
Tree and saw accidents nullify years of forestry experience.

lumberjack48

Ianab, the next new chain you put on your saw, take a close look at the edge of the cutters. You'll see a shinny edge on them. Now take a 5/32 file, freehand no file guide, with long straight smooth strokes, you'll see the shinny edge disappear. Should only take one or two strokes, now take a flat file and give the rakers one very light stroke, now its sharper then new.
If you try this with a 7/32 file you have to reform the cutter to get the file to fit. And you get no where near the same results.

Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

beenthere

John
QuoteImportant to file the top plate too with a flat file to take off the burrs

Top plate? Sounds like you mean the top of the cutting tooth. If that has a burr, the first wood the chain cuts will remove that burr without the danger of filing off the new cutting edge. Or just a block of hardwood or the thumbnail will also remove that burr.

If you meant the raker, different story but don't see how the raker can get a burr.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

bandmiller2

Some folks never get the hang of fileing a chain,they would be wise to buy a good grinder.I file and grind but more fileing than I used to.One big advantage to grinding is the chain is removed and the bar and saw cleaned and adjusted.Many guys just keep fileing and the bar and sprocket are plugged with dust.Saws and underwear should be cleaned often. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

HolmenTree

Quote from: norse on January 05, 2013, 06:36:13 AM
When I am cutting a log of any size bigger than a small limb the saw fades to the right a lot.  I can't get a straight cut from it.  What am I doing wrong?????
I know that with short bars filing the right hand cutters with the powerhead in the way makes hand filing more difficult, left cutters can be easily filed because your filing from the sprocket cover side with lots of clearance.
Also the right hand cutters take more careful down pressure control on the file. Alot of novice hand filers have a "lazy backslope" on the right hand cutter's side plates and too much "hook" on the left hand cutters, which wil make the chain cut crooked especially with a worn out bar.
From just the way the hand position is while filing the left hand cutters, it is easier to balance the combination of file down and back pressure at the same time, versus the right side where the hand position makes downward pressure on the file harder to do.
But as said spread worn bar rails make filing super sensitive in making straight cuts.
Focus and practice. ;)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

lumberjack48

Focus and practice, will said,  HolmenTree

When filing the left hand side i kind da lay over the saw holding the saw with my left arm, watching my file, making sure my angle is right, the pitch of the file is right, i'm not filing to deep or to high on the cutter. You can see when the cutters are sharp.

When filing the right hand cutters if you don't have a vice or somebody to hold the saw for you, you need to find a place to put the power head in a bind. I would saw into a stump or tree laying on the ground, theres always someplace.
Now with the power head secure, file in the right hand, now take hold of the end of the file with your left hand, lien over the bar hooking your left arm over the end of the bar. Now you have full control of your file, using both arms to file with, watch for the same things as you did filing the left side.

This will take a little time to master, take your time. If i had hands on, i'd have you filing in an hour or two.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Cedar Savage

I always file the rakers first, in case I slip & touch a cutter with the flat file. Also I always use a raker file, rather than a regular flat file as they are smooth on the edge, & won't muss up your cutters with the edge, if'n ya slip.
"They fried the fish with bacon and were astonished, for no fish had ever seemed so delicious before."         Mark Twain

John Vander

Quote from: beenthere on February 06, 2013, 07:43:04 PM
John
QuoteImportant to file the top plate too with a flat file to take off the burrs

Top plate? Sounds like you mean the top of the cutting tooth. If that has a burr, the first wood the chain cuts will remove that burr without the danger of filing off the new cutting edge. Or just a block of hardwood or the thumbnail will also remove that burr.

If you meant the raker, different story but don't see how the raker can get a burr.
I'm not talking about the rakers. I mean that after filing with a round file, you just lightly touch the top plate with a flat file. The burrs are actually very small and I don't suppose it's really needed, but I have found that my saw cuts quite smoothly when I remove them.
Tree and saw accidents nullify years of forestry experience.

John Vander

Holmen Tree, thanx. Great avdice. I'll take that to the bank. smiley happysmiley
Tree and saw accidents nullify years of forestry experience.

beenthere

Quotebut I have found that my saw cuts quite smoothly when I remove them.

Do as you like, but touching the file on top just risks comprimising the cutting edge and can't really improve that edge (IMO).

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

John Vander

beenthere, thanx mate, I'll check out what you're telling me and give it a try. I'll sharpen the saw without touching the top plates and give it a test.
Tree and saw accidents nullify years of forestry experience.

John Vander

Quote from: John Vander on February 05, 2013, 10:13:26 PM
I suppose that you put the dogs into the wood when bucking. The cutting line of the chain runs on a different line than the dogs. This offset angle causes the saw to pivot to the right (the dogs being the pivot point). Tilt the saw slightly to the right when you put the dogs into the wood, but with no pressure on the top of the saw. Let the weight of the saw carry it through. This will result is a straight cut.
Humblest apologies... I made a mistake: The above situation is for a left tilting cut, not right. sorry about that.
Tree and saw accidents nullify years of forestry experience.

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