Tool Review- Handsaw

[Rooster]

I recently purchased a Dewalt 20", 8 tpi handsaw with the new lazer cut teeth. These types of saws are clearly built to be disposable since no one can sharpen them.  So here are some of the pros and cons.


  

 

Pros:

~Price was good, around $26.

~Teflon coating on the blade helps let the saw glide smoothly even in dry wood, and since I don't work inside a shop, my tools are exposed to whatever the weather is like on any particular day...the coating helps to keep the blade from rusting.

~Teeth stay sharp.

~Well built.

Cons:

~Out of the cardboard sheath, the teeth are also coated with Teflon,  It took about a dozen 8" wide x 2" deep cuts to wear off the Teflon from the teeth to where the saw started to cut like it should.

~I wear a size 9 leather glove (medium), so my hands are not large.  I found that the opening in the handle was a bit too deep which pushed the grip farther back from the handle body, to the point where I struggled to comfortably reach the body with my index finger.  I adjusted by sliding my hand up to the top of the handle and let my index finger rest along side the top of the handle body.  I am assuming that the opening in the handle is larger to allow someone with much larger hands or for someone using thick insulated gloves.

~I was hoping that there would be a guard that slid over the teeth to protect them during storage or transport in a tool bag or box.


Overall, I am pleased with the performance, price, and availability of this saw.  I would buy another in the future and recommend it as a useful saw.

Rooster

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi Rooster,

Thanks for the review.  There are several companies now using this tooth and design. Believe it or not, if you took the handle off and flipped them around, you have a Japanese saw.  Most, (if not all,) are based on Japanese tooth and tempering technology.  Students of mine who are struggling with pull saws usually like these.  Some are over 24" (600 mm) long, and of good quality.

Have you ever tried a "pull saw?"  I posted photos in my Gallery and on this post thread. https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,62807.msg930132.html#msg930132

Regards,

Jay

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Rooster,

I thought you would get a kick out of this.  ;D  Re-sawing the Asian way.  Just think, they use a saw similar to this and not much bigger, to saw boards out of a log, for some of the temples.  Before my shop got robed a few years back, I had a nice collection of these.  A friend sent me this photo, that is about a 20 mm (3/4") board being split in half and it will take about 15 minutes:

[Rooster]

Jay,

Believe it or not, I do own a pull saw, which I gave to one of the other contractors on my last job, since he had never used one before.  I had a cheap double edges Irwin pull saw that has a very flexible blade for getting close to the face of the beam when I cut the trunnels flush on the outside of a frame.  I am saving up for a Big Katana saw made by Silky...they refer to it as a "manual chainsaw"... 8)

The Dewalt cuts on the push and the pull...the teeth are slightly tipped back like a pull saw, but the primary cutting edge is towards the front like a push saw.

Rooster

[shelbycharger400]

 I have one of those similar to it, but a different brand.  Its out in the garage somewhere. IT works really well!  lot better than the old style hand saws, with less effort too.     

Speaking of hand saws .  Yes you can take down a tree with a hack saw.  My buddy and I had to do that one night when a fire was too close to a tree.   A hack saw works REAL well with 2 people on the saw,  given it was only a 6 in dia.  It was down in only a few minutes.

[Jim_Rogers]

Shelby:
Did you mean "hack saw"? or hand saw?

I wouldn't want to try and cut down a tree with a "hack saw".....

Jim Rogers

[shelbycharger400]

O it definately was a hack saw..

couldnt find anything else in the barn, the saw was out of gas,  it was a elm, green as a goard, but it leaves went up and lit up!  didnt help the bon fire had 12 foot high flames

I cant imagine splitting a board with a pull saw.. good god.

[Rooster]

Shelby forgot to mention that the tree he and his buddy cut with a hacksaw was an "ironwood" tree....see?...now it makes sense.

Rooster

[Brian_Weekley]

Yes you can take down a tree with a hack saw.

He once felled a giant sequoia with only a pocket knife.  He can drive nails with his fist.  He accurately measures without a tape.  He builds timber frames without timber.  He's the most interesting man in the world.  Sorry Shelby, for a minute, I thought you were Jay.   :D :D


I have a SharkSaw (pull saw) that I find useful for cutting the edges of housing.  The thin kerf makes it easy to get close to a side.  Otherwise, I like the Stanley SharpTooth for just about everything else.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi Brian,

You've turned into a cat for the holidays, it caught me off guard.  I'll stop telling stories and being long winded, you got me. Or at least I'll try.   ;)

[Dave Shepard]

Can you get that DeWalt with a wooden handle and in 26"? I was reprimanded for showing up at a workshop once with a plastic handled Stanley. :D I've been having trouble lately with handsaws. The Sharptooth saws don't seem to stay sharp very long in big timbers, and they start to wander. I've gathered together a bunch of tools to start sharpening my own saws. I don't think the fine 12 tpi Stanley is suited to cutting green 10"x16" timbers. I do use Japanese Ryoba saws, but they are sadly way undersized for these timbers.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Dave,

Go to my gallery and check out the big saws I have there.  It can handle a 300 mm x 300 mm (12"X12") without any complaint.  You may also have to go the Japanese market or try and find a 300 mm  or larger Ryoba (両刃鋸) You can find them on the web if you do the correct searches.

Regards,

Jay

[shelbycharger400]

Rooster... ok...ok...laugh it up..  it definately was an elm, as no ironwoods grow in buffalo mn.

`its a sobering thought tho,  could have torched the other trees, or the barn, so we did what we could do.

I went and looked, my handsaw is made by stanley  rarely gets used.

[Jim_Rogers]

I'm sure I've told this story here, at least once, but maybe not.

I was working with my brother fixing up his shed one day. And he had a trim board on the outside of the shed and it was too long. It was put up to be trimmed off afterwards to the correct length.

Well it was time to trim it.

He asked me "how would you trim that board?"

Before I ever took a timber framing workshop, I would have tried to use any power saw I could to cut anything that needed to be cut.

After taking a workshop with Jack Sobon and learning how to correctly use "hand tools" my attitude about power saws changed completely.

So I answered my brother and told him to go to my tool box and get my hand saw and I'd reach out the window and trim that trim board off.

Of course he never would even consider using anything but a power saw to cut anything.

So instead of getting me my hand saw. He stated that this trim board "needed" to be cut off with "his" sawzal power saw.

Off he went to get his sawzal. Then he had to change the blade from a metal cutting blade to a wood cutting blade. After he had to get out his long extension cord, plug it into the house's outside outlet and run the cord all the way out to the shed.
He plugged in his saw all ready to cut off this little 1x3 trim board. (Now getting this saw, blade changed, extension cord, plugging it in) all took him about 10 to 15 minutes or so.

He looked up and saw that the trim board was cut.

He asked me how did it get cut?

Well, while he was busy running around "like a chicken with it's head cut off," trying to get all his stuff together to do a simple three stroke cut off, I got my own hand saw from my tool box and cut it off, as I didn't want to wait 15 minutes for him to get all his stuff together.

I told him I cut it off with my hand saw 15 minutes ago, and I had moved on to the next step in the shed rebuild. And that I did it would three strokes of the saw. ;D

Sometimes the simplest solution is the easiest.

Jim Rogers

[Rooster]

I'm a believer, Brother...I'm a believer!!!

[Jay C. White Cloud]

 :D :D :D and people laugh at me when I say, "hand tools are faster, a lot of the times..."   ;D thank's Jim!

[Jay C. White Cloud]

I am but a humble servent to my craft...

For your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4o_zi7l8DY

木挽き use on big log


Man sawing in his shop with 木挽き Kobiki Saw.


Man demonstrating 木挽き use

[Dodgy Loner]

I have a 26" Stanley SharpTooth that I love. It is basically the same tooth configuration as the DeWalt. The handle was atrocious, so I made a new one for it based on an old Disston handsaw. Whenever I wear out the saw plate, I'll cut it up for scrapers and buy a new Sharptooth to fit into the handle.

[ziggy]

Jay: Where the heck would you get a Japanese rip saw like one of those? (Er, maybe not the huge one person or two-folk kind, but the more reasonable medium size saws like the one in your first image.)

Edit: I have the image that master rip sawyers are the most intense carpenters out there...

[jueston]

Jay: Where the heck would you get a Japanese rip saw like one of those? (Er, maybe not the huge one person or two-folk kind, but the more reasonable medium size saws like the one in your first image.)

Edit: I have the image that master rip sawyers are the most intense carpenters out there...

japan.... :D

but i am willing to be bet that one is an older saw that has been refurbished, just like people here in america find old saws, fix them up, and demonstrate them...

but i could be wrong, and jay will know the answer.

[Brad_bb]

I hear it only takes Jim 3 licks to get the center of a Tootsie roll Pop too! ;D

Yeah I didn't really learn how to use hand tools until I was 35 or so.  It's a real shame so few know how, compared to the old days, and there are fewer teachers around to show the next generation.  I love a chisel and a handsaw.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hey Brad_bb,

I'm teach'n as many as I can, but what I tell most of my students/apprentices first is: pick the tool up, feel it, learn to keep it really sharp.  Your body, the tool, the material you put it into and your own, "deep memory," will teach a 100 time more than I or anyone could.  That wisdom was given to me, and now I pass it on.

I hope to go back to Japan in the fall of 2013, and this time, if I can, bring some more saws back.  It's been a long time since I was there last.  In the interim, I hope to make some more web connections for some of these saws. 

Yes many are antiques, but there are a few blacksmiths (鍛冶屋) that specialize in saws.  There is also a big resurgence in this current crop of 20 to 30 something craftspeople, that really want to keep these skills alive, as you can see from the pictures.

Regards,

Jay

[Piston]

Can you get that DeWalt with a wooden handle and in 26"? I was reprimanded for showing up at a workshop once with a plastic handled Stanley. :D I've been having trouble lately with handsaws. The Sharptooth saws don't seem to stay sharp very long in big timbers, and they start to wander. I've gathered together a bunch of tools to start sharpening my own saws. I don't think the fine 12 tpi Stanley is suited to cutting green 10"x16" timbers. I do use Japanese Ryoba saws, but they are sadly way undersized for these timbers.

Dave,
I also never fell in love with the Sharptooth saws, I know a lot of people recommend them but I never liked them.
What are the saws they sell at Heartwood?  It has an orange handle on it.  I bought one of those after using it there, and used a (whatever the name of the tool is) to increase the set in the teeth, it made a big difference and cut much faster.


Jay,
Those are some incredible pictures!

[Dave Shepard]

Orange handle is probably a Sandvik/Bahco. It's not that I don't like the Sharptooth, I just think they are better suited to smaller, drier timbers. If they made an 8 tpi Sharptooth, I bet it would work a lot better in bigger timbers.

Jay, I don't see how a 300 mm Ryoba is going to cut a 10"x17" (254x431.8 ) timber. I have a 330 Ryoba, and it's just not happening.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi Dave,

You are correct, on larger stock, even a 300 mm (12") can be a bit of a challenge, that is why I have the "Willow leaf," saw you have seen photos of here on the forum.  However, with something like a 250 mm x 425 mm (10" x 17") and your saw it is standard practice, and not to difficult.

It is the sawing technique that may help you most.  Starting on the 10" side, score the saw line.  Now, come over just  a little more on the waste side, and score again.  You have now created a "kerfing trough," that will help guide the saw. As you get better you can forgo this step, but I still use it on critical cuts.  Now, bring that trough all the way down the 17" side.

Begin you kerf in the corner closest to you, and remember the important rule for pull saws, they need to have as many teeth engaged as possible to keep a really straight cut, (or a lot of skill.)  You are going to bring that kerf across the 10" side first with out sawing past the opposite corner, which would put your saw edge out of your view.  You should avoid that whenever possible, even if you need to change position of your body.

Now from here, there are two equally qualified methods I have observed in both timber and ship wrights.  The "Rotational" or "Side to side" method.  With the rotational method, you just keep spinning the beam, or your body, or both  ;) and the other you move from side to side, which is more common if you only have a small range of saws, limited experience with them and a big beam to cut.  With just a little practice these methods become quite proficient.  Also remember do most from the small side; in this case, the 10" side.

If you look and the photos on this thread of Diaku milling timbers with hand saws, you will realize that the saw in comparison to what they are milling is way undersized. More so, than if you tackled your 250 mm x 425 mm with a 250 mm saw.  Nevertheless, they are doing ripping cuts and you are doing cross cuts, so if you can get a longer saw, do saw. Just remember the kerf will be a little rougher with bigger saws, because of saw set in the teeth and tooth spacing, unless you file and set your own teeth.

Good Luck,

Jay