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Radiant heat install

Started by Corley5, December 29, 2012, 07:52:42 PM

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Corley5

  I started researching this a couple years ago, started collecting materials a year ago and the last few days started the installation.  We "energized" the tubing in the first story floor this afternoon.  It works, no leaks, and shows a 10 degree temperature drop from the supply to the return side.  We've got a third of the tubing pulled in the second floor and two thirds of the holes drilled.  We were tired of working on the ladders and hooked up what was done today.  I still need to mount the Taco switching center and hook the circulator and thermostat to it.  The insulation also needs to be put in under the lines.  I've got foil backed R-19 to install foil side up.  Feels good when something turns out the way it was envisioned.



  

  

    
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

thecfarm

Looks good. I need to take lessons from you on how to make things come out right.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Corley5

Things don't always turnout as they should ;) :)  I got lucky this time  8)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

snowstorm

is that 3\4" pex? thats what i used and it pulled mean. i tried a couple different plastic hangers some stay for a while then break in to. replaced the nails with screws that helped a lot. i used the foil bubble wrap insulation stapled it up. you wont need that modine heater.

Corley5

  There's one inch in the suppy manifold and to the Modine.  Three quarter feeds the distribution manifold and there's 1/2" in the joist bays stapled up with Peter Mangone standoff staples.  The tubing is pex al pex.  The memory will bend out of it  ;D  It doesn't pull too bad but you have to be careful about kinks.  We had three runs of a five run circuit and got a kink.  Pulled it all out and started over.  I don't want any unions buried in the floor that may leak.  It's been and is a learning experience.  We're almost half done pulling the tubing in the second floor.
  The Modine is a 67,000 btu unit and heated the whole place, over 2000 sq ft, last winter so we could work in there.  It sure ate up the wood.  I'm going to move it to the workshop when this is done.  It hasn't kicked on since the radiant was fired up  8)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Autocar

I would like to do something like that but I have a crawl space and heard storys about bending and pulling and I wondered if I was in the mood to tackle a job like that. What I have is a heat exchanger between my air and force air furance into duct work.
Bill

Holmes

Autocar you do not need to use 3/4" pipe, 1/2" will be fine. This is not an easy job in a crawl space , it can be done and it will take over an hour to do each bay, not including insulating.  That hour# is just to give you an idea how much work it is and not to be relied on as an estimate.  Holes to drill , pipes to pull, staples to put up, connections to manifolds, purging , then when you know everything is working ok insulating.
Think like a farmer.

r.man

I saw some professionals putting in the same type of system last winter. They pulled the pipe into the joist space and used the plastic hangers but they spaced them about 24 inches apart and used shaped aluminum plates in between. The plates were maybe 10 inches wide with two raised areas for the tubes down the length. Short wood screws held these up and then the area was covered with shiny foil insulation. They said the aluminum was to distribute the heat more evenly.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Corley5

I looked into the aluminum plates but their cost kept me away.  You don't get enough of them for a grand.  I went with the pex al pex because it supposedly transfers heat better than pex.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

WDH

That will keep the glaciers out of your house.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Corley5

Quote from: WDH on December 31, 2012, 10:09:29 PM
That will keep the glaciers out of your house.

They're advancing rapidly  ;D :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

WDH

If you need a respite, come see me  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

thecfarm

I need to do that to my front walkway,"someday". I have real small stones on the walk way. Looks real nice,but a real bother to shovel snow off it. I put some rubber belting on it and than shovel snow off from that and drag the belting into the garage to use for the next time.Don't like to leave it,it gets real slippery with some snow on it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Roger2561

Nice job!

I would love to put radiant in my kitchen.  It's roughly 400sqft.  The house is the house in which I was raised (mom and dad left this earth for a place far better years ago).  I've lived here all my life.  It was built somewhere around the 1840's.  The construction is mainly of massive beam.  The floor of the kitchen has instead of the usual 16 on center floor joist, large beams spaced approximately 3 feet apart.  The area under the kitchen is more of a crawl space where one can easily work under there on their knees.  Presently I'm heating the kitchen with a wall mount convector/water to air heat exchanger.  It keeps the kitchen warm enough but the heater has to work hard to maintain the temp due to the cold floor sucking the heat out of the air.  I am not in a position to hire a contractor.  I simply do not have the funds for that.  But, if you know of some resources that can help me figure out what I need in terms of supplies, I'd be most grateful.  Thank you.  Roger   
Roger

Holmes

Roger I can walk you thru the basic ideas and concepts you need to plan your project and explain some of the pitfalls.   Start a thread and ask your questions you will get plenty of help. PM me if you like... Dana
Think like a farmer.

Roger2561

Quote from: Holmes on January 01, 2013, 11:57:29 AM
Roger I can walk you thru the basic ideas and concepts you need to plan your project and explain some of the pitfalls.   Start a thread and ask your questions you will get plenty of help. PM me if you like... Dana

Believe me, I'll be asking.  Thanks. 

But, I have to get ready for a family function.  I'll be back later - In one piece, I hope.  Roger
Roger

r.man

Corley did you mean you looked at aluminum "tin" plates to put over the pex to spread the heat or are you talking about something to replace the pex piping in the joist?
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Corley5

I looked at the plates you spoke off and they're expensive  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

MapleNut

Nice looking project!! I started installing pex under my main floor using that staple system and had trouble getting the staples to hold the pex up.The staples wanted to pull out, especially at any corner or bend in the pex. I bought some screwin plastic clips-haven't tried them yet(kind of expensive, 25 for$6 and I need lots). I need to get motivated and get back at it!
2005 WM LT40HDG28, 5500 IRON MULE, 272,262,046, & A PIC!

snowstorm

i used 3/4" 300'rolls never again. never had a trouble with conectors leaking. a plumer i know said he could get me a deal on the plates. his deal was still way to much

Corley5

  We broke into the third 1,000' roll of 1/2" today and will use close to half of it.  It was cheaper to buy a thousand feet than 500' when I got this stuff  :-\  I had issues with the 1" pex al pex fittings leaking.  I was continually tightening them especially if the water temp got low.  I seem to have finally gotten them tight.  I haven't had to snug them since the boiler was first fired this fall and let go out when the weather warmed up for a while.  I've had a couple water temp swings since with no leaks.  Apparently the tubing shrinks as it cools and leaks.  I don't know if the 1/2" would do the same thing or not and didn't want it to happen covered with insulation and drywall.  I wouldn't want to pull 3/4" through joist bays  ;) :)
  We haven't had trouble with the staples pulling with the pex al pex but I used them for a couple runs of regular pex for potable water and they didn't hold as well because of the memory with that kind of pex tubing.  It wants to recoil itself.
  I bought Dan Holohan's books and read them.  They were helpful.  I also checked out pexuniverse.com, pexheat.com, blueridgesupply.com, pexsupply.com and others.  Run a search for pex tubing and check all their prices to get the best ones.  I also ordered a lot of the stuff from E-bay stores.  Ball valves can be had much cheaper online than from HD or Lowes but comparison shop for the stuff and look for "free shipping".  Some places only give free shipping on orders over a $100.00.  I just ordered some more fittings and I was farther ahead to get a few more fittings to make the $100.00 and get them shipped free  ;)  A search for pex on E-bay brings up a bunch of sources.  I'd have payed close to double if I'd bought the stuff locally.  Complete circulators can be had cheaper online than a replacement cartridge locally  :(  Up here anyway.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

samandothers

You are about 5 years ahead of me in planning.  We would like put a place where we currently have a our camper.  For heat I had been thinking wood stoves.  Recently thought it might be good to investigate using an OWB. 

Taking advantage of your research, what are some good resources to learn some basics about OWB and the use of radiant floors, water to air heating and domestic water heating? 

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