iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Sawing

Started by lpresnell, December 29, 2012, 03:20:27 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lpresnell

What is the going rate for sawing? I have some white & red oak that I need sawn. I know of a guy that has a Woodmize band mill. Just curious as what some of you charge.

Magicman

First, Welcome to the Forestry Forum, lpresnell.

I see no indication anywhere in your profile showing where you are located.  It does matter.  That being said, I see saw prices ranging from $150 to $350 per Mbf.  We are mid range here.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

bama20a

As magic man said,It will mostly depend on your location,Here (Alabama) around my neck of the woods,It's around 280-300 range.
It is better to ask forgiveness than permission

Jay C. White Cloud

Hi lpresnell,

I'm not sure if your asking Mbf price or the rate to have someone come and mill logs you have down and ready to go?
That all makes a big difference as well as location.  I recommend to land owners, to only deal with custom sawyers that charge by the board foot.  They may have minimum amounts, damage equipment fees, and the like but do not hire someone by the hour.  Craftsmen, no matter the craft, know there trade and can give you a fixed price or matrix, 99 % of the time.

:new_year: and welcome to the forum!

Regards,

Jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

beenthere

Quotebut do not hire someone by the hour

That may depend a lot on the logs that lpresnell has that he wants sawn.  If marginal logs, to be sawn into particular sizes of products be it lumber or not, then it may be a custom project that is not befitting of a bf charge rate and the best deal for both sides to go with an hourly rate.
Not knowing anything about the logs, thier location, where they need to be sawn, or the expectations of lpresnell.... I think a good answer is yet forthcoming.

Maybe lspresnell will fill us in for a helpful answer.
And welcome to the Forestry Forum. Hope we can hear more about the project.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WindyAcres

Quotedo not hire someone by the hour.  Craftsmen, no matter the craft, know there trade and can give you a fixed price or matrix, 99 % of the time.
I dont think so. In my experience, most of the people get paid by the hour. Not too long ago a guy brought some 5 feet spalted logs to me, some of them with 7 inches at the small end, he wanted 1 inch boards. You want to charge 30 cents/bf for that?

I am only charging by the hour (45$/h, setup and milage depends on contract volume, 30$ for every blade that gets damaged because of metal, rocks,..) because there are too many factors that I cant control + I am happy with a certain amount of $/h, dont need to make more. If the landowner gets a great deal, good for him.
2011 Woodmizer Lt40 Hyd G28, Stihl Chainsaws, Tractor with Farmi Winch, Woodturning Lathe,....

Magicman

I charge by the bf or hourly depending upon the log quality and species.  All rates and charging methods are reviewed with the customer before any work is done, and a contract is signed by myself and the customer.  I have never been questioned or had any problem whatever concerning my sawing rates or methods.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Jay C. White Cloud

As I tend to represent the wood lot owner, as well as being a custom sawyer - Timber Wright, I guess I see things differently.  If you know your skill sets and craft,  the dependable sawyers around these parts saw only by the bf.  It does not matter if the logs/bolts are marginal, if the milling is to be custom cut, if the job site is challenging, they always adjust there prices accordingly.  I'm part of it on a fairly regular basis and have seen several fellows come and go this year, just because they didn't know how to price a job and tried to do it by the hour.  The client was not happy and they lost the job.

One of the sawyer I know step in, and "lickety split," the job was done and the client was happy.  I believe in this example the fellow charge'n by the our would have finished the job for much less than it ended up costing the client, but the client liked the fact they got to see a crew come in, run a clean site, and paid half up front and the other half when it was done.  The fellow charge'n by the hour would have lost money; (he ended up selling his mill.)

I did say 99% of the time, maybe I should have said 95% of the time.  In rare cases, where the client doesn't really know what they want, it is better to give them a flat daily rate, but most of the time I can help my client get there "ducks in a row," which makes the saw out a pleasure.

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Delawhere Jack

On small portable jobs I'm strictly hourly, $60/hr, 4 hour minimum. If the customer isn't happy with that, they can bring the logs to me and there is only a one hour minimum. I simply cannot haul the mill out for an $80-100 job. By the time you add up gas, travel time, mill maintenance etc. I'd be working for nothing.

Keep in mind, most all of my customers are homeowners with a small number of hardwood logs and no support equipment.

For those (sadly) rare calls where someone has a dozen or more nice logs, a tractor, and a hardworking offbearer to work with me, then I quote bf pricing. Funny thing is, it usually works out to about the same rate when cutting hardwoods. Poplar and softwoods work out cheaper per bf.

WindyAcres

No, by charging by the hour you cant lose money. The cost of the machine stays pretty much the same, so you just have to figure that out + add the hourly rate that you want to make. Thats when you dont want to work for less than a certain amount of $/h like in my case. Why adjust, its a lot easier and saver to do it by the hour.

If you want to make more money, then you have to charge by the bf.

You should have said, 20.. most of the people get paid by the hour, at least around here.
2011 Woodmizer Lt40 Hyd G28, Stihl Chainsaws, Tractor with Farmi Winch, Woodturning Lathe,....

Jay C. White Cloud

Hi WindyAcres,

It is funny you would use Splated wood as an example. Earlier this fall, someone sent me a fellow who had 5 logs at 6 feet each on a trailer. One big Silver Maple and a few Sugasr.  I told him we will set the Silver of to the side to season for a few years, (it turned out to be no good, common for them, but when their good, there great!.)  The rest I told him the following:

$50.00 set up and tooling for the job.

25.00 for each damaged/broke blade. (had one.)

$0.45/board foot (actual), "fletch cut" and he is my "tender," for the job.

We called it $180.00 or half the spalted wood.

I took half.

I just guess it is up to the individual sawyer, I still recommend to clients, look for some one that can give you a fixed price matrix of some form or fashion.

Regards,

Jay


"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Ianab

The hour or bd/ft charging is not really an issue, as long as the sawyer can give a reasonably accurate estimate before starting the job.

If they look at the pile of logs, and say, "That's about 1,000 bd ft, charging 25c bd/ft, that will come out around $250"

Or another sawyer looks and says "Take me about 4 hours to saw those, @$50 an hour, that will be about $250"

Where the bd/ft breaks down is non-standard jobs. Oversize or under-size logs for example. Special cuts like quarter sawing. Might take 50% longer to cut the same number of bd/ft. Who should wear that? Only fair way then is by the hour, with an estimate of the time first.

What about site setup, machinery and helpers. Might double the sawing speed if you set things up correctly. In this case paying by the hour means you come out ahead if you make the sawyers life easier.

But any experienced sawyer (or any other trade) should be able to give a reasonable estimate, at least once he's seen the logs and site etc.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Jay C. White Cloud

QuoteBut any experienced sawyer (or any other trade) should be able to give a reasonable estimate, at least once he's seen the logs and site etc.

Yes Sir, that should be the minimum standard, I stand corrected, but if they are doing that and standing by there fee, it is a fixed matrix.

Regards,

Jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Magicman on December 29, 2012, 04:54:54 PM
I charge by the bf or hourly depending upon the log quality and species.  All rates and charging methods are reviewed with the customer before any work is done, and a contract is signed by myself and the customer.  I have never been questioned or had any problem whatever concerning my sawing rates or methods.

Your method will allow both, you and your customer, to continue to smile and waive at each other at Wal-Mart.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Tree Feller

If I am familiar with the sawyer and his work or had dependable references, I would pay by the hour although I prefer by the board foot just because I can know the price beforehand, even without an estimate.

If I know nothing about the sawyer, it would have to be by the board foot. I am also the customer and am paying for the service. The sawyer is not doing me a favor, I'm doing him one. If someone starts immediately quoting his guidelines to be met before he will saw my logs, I would just say no thanks (and have) and find someone else that appreciates my business and acts like it.

Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

WindyAcres

Yes, you should be able to give the costumer a rough estimate if how much it will be. If you do that, it doesnt matter much if you charge by the hour or bf. Of course it can only be rough because there are quite a few factors that you cant control.

@Jay
You need to factor in time buddy  ;) 45 cents when milling 200 bf/h is awesome, 45 cents at 75 bf/h for 2 hours and going 50 miles for it with a Woodmizer LT40HD... As I said, you need to know your expenses (truck, machine,..) and what you want to make/h. Some people like myself want to make a certain amount of $/h (like 80%? of the people around me) and are happy with it (of course you dont want to be too cheap and put people out of business, at least I dont want to do it.. I am already feeling almost bad for 45$/h because I think that is pretty cheap..).
2011 Woodmizer Lt40 Hyd G28, Stihl Chainsaws, Tractor with Farmi Winch, Woodturning Lathe,....

drobertson

I was just wondering if I may join the post?  O,K,  thanks guys,!  I think everyone is right, to a degree, we all know small logs kinda stink, and just don't make much, we know long logs,ie, 16' make allot of footage.  communication is the key to anything we do for others, or have done for us.  On sawmilling this is the same, the only thing that comes to mind for me is the lumber, whether it be 1" or beams, how much do they cost if they were to be purchase off a store floor?  As far as I know it is always calculated by the bd/ft. or by the piece, in either case most folks still go back to how much is it a bd/ft. I saw by the bd/ft, give my best estimate, and insure the custormer that what I saw is figured in to the cost, good the bad and ugly.  I have taken it on the chin, and I have taken it to the bank as well, but as someone mentioned, it sure is nice to give a friendly howdy at the local walmart after the fact.  And I dug up some crooked ole ugly logs today, out of the snow, to make some bone fire benches 8)  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: drobertson on December 29, 2012, 07:34:37 PM
  And I dug up some crooked ole ugly logs today, out of the snow, to make some bone fire benches 8)  david

More satisfying than panning for gold.  8)

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

drobertson

 Uhh, Yea! ;D you rascal! happy for you man,  its nice when a plan comes together!
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

I would love to hear from the OP so that he can supply additional information.  His question needs to be properly addressed.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

John Bartley

Quote from: Jay C. White Cloud on December 29, 2012, 04:21:27 PM
I recommend to land owners, to only deal with custom sawyers that charge by the board foot.  They may have minimum amounts, damage equipment fees, and the like but do not hire someone by the hour.

For the three years that I sawed mobile (before I packed up my stuff and moved 500 miles), I only charged by the hour. I charged a travel amount at 50% of my sawing rate, and I would give my customers and "estimate" of how long I thought the job would take, and I charged $60/hr, starting from the time we started cutting until we finished the job. The only time I turned off the clock was for breaks (lunch and coffee).  I required that my customers be prepared the way I required (logs set up on bunks and stickers ready and at least one labourer supplied). I turned away more work than I took. I didn't need to work to eat (retired), but I didn't see any reason for undercutting anybody else in the business. My customers got good value for their money and I always left them satisfied, so I don't see why someone would not hire a sawyer by the hour.

Why wouldn't I charge by the board foot??  If I can't control the quality of the logs coming onto the mill, I'm sure as shooting not going to get paid for what I can or can't get out of them. There's just no way I'm going to finance the customers who have crappy logs, or weren;t prepared, or can't do a good days work taking off slabs and boards.

That's just how I did it, and it worked fine for me - your mileage may vary.

cheers


John

Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
Champion 25hp band mill, 20' bed
Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

drobertson

If I see his info right he is located in western NC, but his profile shows that he is about two hours from me, in the lake of the ozarks area, of missouri, a lil confused, in any case I believe you said it best Lynn, 200 to 350 dollars a thousand board feet. the site, the logs, the mileage will all have to be figured in, before an accurate number can be established.  My contact info is in my profile, I would be glad to discuss this with him, if in fact he is in missouri,  I am almost thinking that this is post asking for a comparison bid in order to valedate a previous quote, no harm, just a question he has,  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

WH_Conley

MOST of my sawing done by the bdft. I just finished one job that I should have done by the hour. I have got truck loads of Pine and Cedar in that were hourly jobs. Some "logs" were double length, I had to cut them in two. "Logs" as small as 6". I am not doing those jobs by the ft.
Bill

Art_H

Quote from: Tree Feller on December 29, 2012, 06:58:59 PM
If I am familiar with the sawyer and his work or had dependable references, I would pay by the hour although I prefer by the board foot just because I can know the price beforehand, even without an estimate.

If I know nothing about the sawyer, it would have to be by the board foot. I am also the customer and am paying for the service. The sawyer is not doing me a favor, I'm doing him one. If someone starts immediately quoting his guidelines to be met before he will saw my logs, I would just say no thanks (and have) and find someone else that appreciates my business and acts like it.

I'd like to think that  a business and a customer are equally doing each other a favor.  The business by offering great customer service and fair business practices, and the customer by offering their business.

This business has many variables, and it's not my problem that a customers logs were dragged through the mud, or spiked.  But I'll help the customer solve the problem with the least cost.  But there will be an extra cost. That's where the 'fair' part comes in, and I do appreciate that the 'guidelines' can go too far.


Jay C. White Cloud

Hey Folks,

I sure didn't mean to offend anyone, sorry if I did.  I just was through'n my "two cent's," in the direction of lpresnell's original post.  I'm a timber wright first, forester/logger/sawyer by default.  We have several mills among our group so we mill a fare amount.

TreeFeller, said it better than I did,
QuoteIf I know nothing about the sawyer, it would have to be by the board foot. I am also the customer and am paying for the service. The sawyer is not doing me a favor, I'm doing him one. If someone starts immediately quoting his guidelines to be met before he will saw my logs, I would just say no thanks (and have) and find someone else that appreciates my business and acts like it.
So, if I'm making recommendations to a client that has trees to mill, I'm still going to suggest a contract with a fixed pricing matrix.  Then the client can compare the prices they are quoted.  I still haven't found a job I can't do this with, no matter the travel distance, or other challenges.  We may not get a job because of it, but we don't loose money either.

As for the kind of wood that comes out of a log, (which several have referred to,) I'm not sure what that means.  We charge by the bf, if a client doesn't like what comes out of their logs, (I'll warn them ahead of time,) that isn't an issue.  They pay for the board foot no matter what comes out of the log. They will pay for the set up. They will pay for damage to the equipment by their logs.  It has never seemed that complicated, nor that hard to contract.  We give excellent guidance, we often build something with what we mill, and the customer get a set fee by which to compare us to others.

Regards,

Jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Thank You Sponsors!