Non-Native Species

[Gary_C]

I have worked on two MN State jobs that have involved the "Scientific and Natural" people in the DNR. Those guys seem to be on a mission against the Red or Norway Pine in this state. Their particular mission is to eradicate the Norway Pine from the southern part of the state and restore the land to prairies. They say Norway Pine is not a native species to this part of the state.

Are there similiar type of eradication efforts in other parts of the country against some planted and/or non-native species?

[JohnW]

I don't know.  I've seen a DNR guy wading through the brush in the Clark County Forestry (Indiana) spraying invasive species.  He said there were some nasty vines and stuff.  That doesn't compare with the pine project you're describing at all, except for the DNR and the phrase, invasive species.

[shelbycharger400]

I preformed eradication of a few hundred red / norway pines in feb/march this year.
Its kinda funny being planted in the 40's , most likely by the conservation corps, or somehow through them I imagine, for windbreaks. 
I wonder why they are so bent on creating a prairie . 
It dosn't help us in the wood line, and grass isnt that much of a renewable resource for heat/ fuel.     Shure it might be helpful to the grouse,  but the phesant shure do like evergreens in the winter.

[Ron Wenrich]

Most of our non-native species tend to come from urban plantings.  I've seen Norway maple that has started to invade woodlands.  Ailanthus has been a problem on roadsides and in pioneer forests.  The scotch pine that was planted back in the '50s never took off.  Same goes for Japanese larch.  The state also encourage the planting of hybrid poplar for biomass.  The worst part there is that there isn't a market for any of those species, other than pulp.  The pulp mills have closed down since then.

The state encouraged the planting of multiflora rose and Russian olive as habitat for small game.  Now its an invasive species.  The worst is oriental bittersweet.  I've seen this cover and take down pine trees.  Birds disperse the seeds, and when you get an area that is cleared, like a ROW, it will take it over.

We also get pin oak and silver maple that invades good sites.  They aren't considered invasive, since they normally occur in stands.  But, they are growing off site.  If I was marking timber, they'd be the first to go.

[Gary_C]

IN western MN there is an ongoing effort to clear out the cedar that is taking over open lands and that is nasty stuff. The cedar also grows on some of the rocky hills and valleys in SE MN and everytime I have encountered it, I cut it and try to process it in the harvester. Never had any sucess as it's more of a bush than a tree.

And the Norway or Red Pine is the state tree in MN but that does not seem to stop these guys. I think they are mounting an effort to have the NP replaced as the state tree. I just don't understand why. It's a beautiful tree. The only problem is that it grows so tall and straight that it's the first tree to go down in storms.

[reride82]

I know the gov't has been trying to eradicate the Russian Olive along the Missouri River within the 'Upper Missouri River National Monument' in certain areas. In an area like that, I would imagine it being near impossible considering the contamination from upstream. Russian Olive seems to be a very hardy and prolific tree that used to be widely used for windbreaks and shelter on the plains. I know it can be a pain to deal with along irrigation ditches.

[OneWithWood]

Here is a list-in-progress of the many invasives we are attempting to hold in check if not erradicate in Indiana.

[ashes]

I know my friend and I hike in Hoosier National Forest when I am back there and they have some pretty good looking red pines. I asked him about them and he said they were planted years ago, but now the F.S. was wanting to remove them to work on getting those forests back to the natural species.

I am not sure what red pine is worth at the mill, but I am guessing these would find their way there. They are some pretty good sized dbh trees with strait boles and fairly clear.

This is around the Bloomington area of Hoosier National Forest if you were wondering. I know it goes fairly far to the south of there.

I absolutely love hiking in that area.

[SwampDonkey]

Although aspen and balsam fir are native, the more you cut the more you get. At one time, the feeling was if they eradicated balsam fir it would slow the cycles of the budworm. Well it didn't come to pass because by the time you get the ground covered and go back to the beginning you didn't get anywhere. Clear cutting the stuff was just about like bugs eating it followed by fires. Like hitting the reset button. :D

We have native red pine, but pure wild stands here over 10 acres are rare. 100's of acres were planted on old fields because it could be treated once and let the pine grow at will. It was often inter-planted where white spruce was already taking hold, but low stem count on the fields and maybe up to 6 feet in height. The red pine will catch up and fill the gaps. When they tried to plant red pine on hardwood sites, it didn't take as well because hardwood and aspen would over top it. You could spray, but it never really killed hardwood, successfully. Plus only certain chemicals are allowed to be sprayed. Some people at one time would make a stink over cutting red spruce. They said it was endangered or some such craziness. They obviously never thinned with a brush saw before. I never saw a stand of red spruce that wasn't thick as dog hair with new seedlings as it was being cut. The thickest sites have mostly been thinned now because they were the best sites. But still lots of red spruce on the less than idea places to. It's not easy cutting either because it's tough wood and the limbs are stiff, and scratchy, often you have the but prune with the brush saw to even get at the stem. :D

[doctorb]

I am interested if anyone has knowledge or experience with eradication of ailanthus (tree of heaven) that might help me.  I just took down 30-40 that had formed an invasive neighborhood in my woods.  Too wet to get the logs out of there right now.  I am planning to cut and split for burning next year in my OWB.  The few sites that list BTU / cord data on ailanthus as firewood are conflicting.  My tree guy tells me the stuff was extremely hard and dulled up his saws pretty well.  My reading tells me it spreads from both seeds and shoots arising from its roots.  Any tricks to prevent new / re-growth?

[OneWithWood]

Ashes, I think what you saw were white pines, not red pines.  The white pines were planted decades ago when the government  acquired the many played out farms that make up a large percentage of the Hoosier.  This is hardwood country and the market for softwoods is practically non-existent.  It is true that the USFS has been clearing many stands of pine to make way for the native oak-hickory and beech-maple ecosystems.  We are blessed to have such wonderful scenery so close at hand.  The next time you are out this way let me know.

Doc, Ailanthus sprouts heavily from the roots, especially if cut or wounded.  You will need to go back this spring and do a basal spray with Tryclopir (Garlon 4 and some generics) mixed with a carrier to eradicate the stems that pop up.  It may take a couple years to knock them back and then some maintenance every year until the seed source and root systems are used up.

[ashes]

OneWithWood- That is interesting to know. I thought they were red pines, but you would probably know more than me on that matter. I can pick out the hardwoods around there pretty well, and I think it is interesting that there are also bald cypress in that area. Maybe the very northern extent of the range or possible planted back then as well.

One thing for sure, it is pretty forest to walk around in, and I enjoy it every chance I get. Living in California it is always nice to visit different forest types. Even though I grew up in Indiana, I never knew much about those forests when I was a child.

[OneWithWood]

The bald cypress are probably native.
It is a small world.  I was born in and spent some formative years in the SF bay area.  Now Indiana is my home.  Actually I have lived on this piece of ground for most of my life now.  Bought the first parcel in 1980.

[ashes]

My folks still live in Columbus, IN so get over there once or twice a year. I get down to SF a few times a year, but I'm 4.5-5 hours out, so not as often as I would like.

sorry to derail this thread, but we also have exotics out here too;D.