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The Good and Bad of Ties

Started by Ohio_Bill, December 23, 2012, 08:49:03 PM

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doghunter

i cut ties quite often it makes a good market for sound knotty logs generated from our logging operation. My buyer buys all hardwood species except ash and poplar. If a log culls out(somtimes you uncover a defect not shown on the outside) on the carraige i just make 2 4x6 pallet cants out of it. It sure is nice to spend a rainy day at the mill when its unfit to be in the woods gives the guys and i some income on a day that otherwise would be lost  doghunter

Okrafarmer

Ok, and while we are mentioning pallet cants, I guess I have another question-- how do you know when a cant is too low quality even for a pallet cant? And you say you make 4X6 cants-- is that a standard size? How much do they give for these pallet cants? About the same per bf as ties?

One thing that does happen to me a bit, is that I get down into a log and find I'm in pallet material. . . . .   :( I suppose that will happen less as I learn to read  :P the logs better.  ;D
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

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Now selling Logrite tools!

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stavebuyer

Quote from: Okrafarmer on December 30, 2012, 01:23:42 AM
Ok, and while we are mentioning pallet cants, I guess I have another question-- how do you know when a cant is too low quality even for a pallet cant? And you say you make 4X6 cants-- is that a standard size? How much do they give for these pallet cants? About the same per bf as ties?

One thing that does happen to me a bit, is that I get down into a log and find I'm in pallet material. . . . .   :( I suppose that will happen less as I learn to read  :P the logs better.  ;D

Thats another plus for ties. You do get quite a few unwelcome surprizes in knotty logs.. especially in red oak. That extra board or two past the 7x9 sometimes leaves you with nothing but punky firewood chunks.

Ron Wenrich

If you're getting punky firewood chunks after pulling a few boards, you won't be getting a good tie.

Whenever you put a log on the carriage, you should be thinking about what you're going to be cutting out of the heart.  Some logs will support a good tie, some won't.  You should be able to see that by the outside appearance in many cases.  Others won't show up until you open the log up. 

In some cases, you'll be able to cut out the defect.  In others, you need a plan B.  That is usually to go to pallet cants.  My rule has always been that if I wouldn't want to buy it, I don't want to sell it.  The big kickers in pallets are rot and shake.  They can't use them. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Meadows Miller

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I reckon with sawing sleepers you do have to budget and focus being productive and making money with even the lowest grade on the list whether that be Firewood or Pallet Timber/cants here in hardwood i make 5x3 fence posts or firewood out of anything thats not a tie and in the pine its all pallet material Mate  ;)

Reards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

WoodenHead

This has been an interesting thread.  Does anyone have contacts for tie buyers in Ontario (Canada)?  What are the specs for ties here?

hackberry jake

I accepted some work from a commercial mill near me to cut metal logs. That mill produces between 200-500 ties a day. I took them some where the heart wasn't centered, one heart actually ran out of the tie. I had to cut them that way because of where the metal was. The owner said they would take them like that. I guess I need to ask him who he is selling them to.
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KnotBB

Quote from: Bibbyman on December 27, 2012, 12:49:19 PM
Our Koppers buyer only wants 9' ties.  We saw 1/8" over 7x9 and trim to 9'-3", for some reason.


What is the industry tolerance to length?  Maybe I'm trimming some I wouldn't have to or not sending some that may be a little less than 9'-3" that would still be long enough?  I've asked the buyer but he implies there is no tolerance.

I just got this info from the "local" log buyer on lengths, double end trimmed  to spec length +/- 1/2".  Pretty tight on length and +/- 1/16" on dimensions.

Species D.Fir/hem-fir
To forget one's purpose is the commonest form of stupidity.

Okrafarmer

That's awfully picky. Too picky for me, especially at those low prices. I can barely mill to a 1/16" tolerance.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Ron Wenrich

They don't need ties.  My understanding of West Coast log specs are that they're pretty tight.  Logs that are too long will be docked in pay.  Seems to flow into the product stream.

Here on the East Coast, we're not as tight.  The local tie buyer doesn't care if its 10', they're only paying for an 8'6" tie.  The rest is waste.  Your loss.

As for dimension, ours uses a timber sizer.  They prefer that they are oversized so they can size them the way they want.  They had requested 1/4" over but I wouldn't cut more than 1/8" over.  Never had rejects due to size, but I held a steady cut.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

stavebuyer

Our order will accept 8'6" to 9'2" in length. We shoot for 1/8" over on the height and width but a tolerance of  +/- a 1/4" is accepted.

Okrafarmer

Do you freehand the ends with a chainsaw, or do you use a cut-off saw or jig of some kind to make them square? I can imagine building a jig for a chainsaw to make it line up nice and square.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Ron Wenrich

We cut with a chainsaw.  Some mills have double end trimmers.  I believe that's what they have at the processing plant.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

paul case

I end trim with a chainsaw as well but the mill where I take my ties to now has an old homebuilt cutoff saw that will trim them 2x as fast as a chainsaw.

PC
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pc

WH_Conley

When they are arrive at the plant they are double end trimmed to final length and the plates are put on the end. My buyer is not real particular about the ends except they don't like "steps", where there is a stump shot, or uneven cut with offset. Somehow it messes with the machine. Doesn't have to be square, just fairly smooth.
Bill

two tired

The tieyard I haul to wants the ties 3" over length, but they are not verry strict about the length. All in all I am worse about culling the cants than the the people at the tie yard.
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scully

Still prity new here ,Best thread I have seen yet ! For a guy like me trying to figure out how ,why and what ,This has been extremely informational ! So far my take on it is ,if you need something to fall back on or know when to finish out a log ending with a tie there is some $ to be made . I don't think I would focus on just sawing ties but if you wound up with 40 or  50 after a good run of sawing seems to me that would be kinda nice . Some of you more experianced guys that answered lost me afterthe first sentance LOL !
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KnotBB

For me I see that the profit is in the jacket boards.  The ties will pay for the logs and a little of the labor.  If I can't find a market for those side boards other than fire wood it's a lot of labor for little profit but I'm dealing with conifer ties.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to run a batch of ties and see what recovery I get from those side boards.  The hope I'm reaching for is that 25% of them will be clears which generally you can find a market for.  But we know what that got us for a president.
To forget one's purpose is the commonest form of stupidity.

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