4* blades

[ladylake]

 
For those of you that won't or don't try 4* blades in tough to saw wood you should. Today again I put on a brand new 7* blade that I could watch cut up and down on the first and 2nd cut, took it off and put on a old Simonds sharpened down to less than 1-1/8 inch wide (10 plus sharpenings) that cut way better but was just a bit wavy on a big knot  in wide frozen white oak.  Took that same 7* blade, gave it a little more set and sharpened at 4* then it cut real straight untill it got dull. This is about the 5th time sharpening at less hook resulted in same although the other blades started a 10 *   Steve

[Shotgun]

How about 4° blades?  In Windows, do "Alt 0176" on your numbers keypad to get the ° .


:christmas:

[ladylake]

Shotgun, your going to have to live with * here, alt0176 seems to do nothing here and it would be to much bother.   Steve

[Magicman]

DanG, I just do it the simple way and click on the ° button just below the "C" on "Change Color" above.   ;D

[ladylake]

 I don't see that button either, I think we all know what* mean on here.  Steve

[ladylake]

I don't see that button either, I think we all know what* mean on here and 4* works better in tough wood.  Steve

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

DanG I just bought some 7* blades to cut some old oak for a fella. Maybe I should have gone with 4s. We shall see next week. Always a day late and a dolla short, Oh well! Merry Christmas to all, Brian

[ladylake]

 Taylor,  your 38 years old try some 4* before you get much older.  I'd have thought a  7* would have cut better but they didn't.  These 7* blades have a real deep gullet, I've alway said gullet dept doen't mean anything.  Steve

[Dave Shepard]

4° is my go to for tough sawing. Tried to cut an old, clear maple last month, the 10° left a cut that looked like a roller coaster, the ReSharp 4° cut it perfectly.

[Chuck White]

Steve;  Sometime you'll have to explain how you make adjustments on the Cats Claw to sharpen at different hook angles.

[bandmiller2]

Chuck,I'am not steve or as smart as he, but my cats claw has a clamp behind the motor and socket head setscrew that fits in different tapped holes for different hook angles.Always good form to have a machinests protractor head and check the teeth.As the leading edge of the grinding wheel wears you will tend to get less hook. Frank C.

[Ohio_Bill]

Steve, I agree with you on 4's.  Whenever I have a log that gives me trouble seems like the 4's work.  I just bought a box of 7's and have not tried them yet. I saw a lot of over ripe oak and hickory.
:christmas:

[ND rancher]

Cut my first bur oak with a new ultra 10*. It didn't make it through a 9'x 20" log! Need to get some 4* before I try another.Any suggestions? Keith

[5quarter]

ND...Bur Oak bark is very deep furrowed and holds dirt and grit like you wouldn't believe. that might have been more of a problem than the hook angle of your blade. Steve's right about less hook angle running better in frozen hardwood, but dirt will chew up teeth fairly quick regardless of of the degree of hook.

[barbender]

Dirt is bad. Frozen dirt is much worse. It doesn't take much to dull a blade.

[ladylake]

Cut my first bur oak with a new ultra 10*. It didn't make it through a 9'x 20" log! Need to get some 4* before I try another.Any suggestions? Keith

For sure get some 4* , also check the downpressure the guide wheels are putting on the blade which is real important to cut straight. It should be 1/4", have the blade tensioned ,loosen the guide wheels so they're above the blade then measure from the blade to the bunk and lower the wheels untill they push it down 1/4". Make sure both sides are even to the bunk.  Also run the movable guide wheel in and out and make sure it stays even with the bunk, there are adjusters on the top of it .    Steve

[ladylake]

The log I was cutting was clean but did have a lot of blown in dust but that 7* blade was up and down if the first 3 feet of the first cut.  When I cut those trees down my saws dulled up fast.   Steve

[bandmiller2]

Anyone here tried less than 4 degree hook.[notice how I got around that degree symbol thing] I must try less than four myself, if you sharpen you own no big deal a simple adjustment.Only real downside is will probibly require more power and a little harder to feed. Frank C.

[Chuck White]

Thanks for the info Frank!

Don't know why, but that info is not in my manual.

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

Your right Steve, I'll give em a try on my next blade order. You sound pretty happy with them. Brian

[ladylake]

 Hey Frank I found the ° , thanks Shotgun never looked up there , those fractions are nice too.   Steve

[Magicman]

You are welcome.   ;D

[ND rancher]

Hey guy's, Thanks for the info.I know that the only dirt would be blown deep in cracks of bark,there was no visible dirt This wood was just hard!Tree had been blown down Aug. of 11 and cut in spring of 12.It had moisture in it as we could see and feel the frozen spots.Ladylake I'm running 3/16 deflection and 1200 psi. Keith :christmas:

[bama20a]

don't mean for this to sound like a smart remark,But being the 4 degree cut's better in hard to saw logs,Why not just cut ever thing with it?instead of ordering all diff- sizes,Mark :christmas:

[YellowHammer]

I started using the .055, 4 degree blades almost 9 months ago for some of my really hard logs and have been very happy with them.  I use them on hickory, beech, pecan, and white oak, especially the big logs because these don't seem to wander as much as my other blades in big hard wood, and seem to stay sharp for a reasonable time.  But get them in poplar and gum and they cut waves unless I slow way down,  so then I switch back to the soft wood blades and everything is fine.  I suppose all hook angles can cut wood if done carefully, but when the right blade gets put into a log it was designed for, it really shines. 
YH

[ladylake]

  It's hard to get 4° blades from some companys, my local saw shop sells Simonds, Lennox and WM but only in 10°.  I do run 4° for everything after the first sharpening.  Steve

[Chuck White]

Steve; Wouldn't you need to slow your feed down in the softwoods with the 4°, when compared to the 10° blades.

The 4° would take sawdust out at slower rate (because of the slower feed) wouldn't it?

I'm only guessing because I don't know for sure!  :-\

[mikeb1079]

my non expert take on blade hook is that the higher the hook the more aggresively the band wants to cut.   with less hook angle your taking a slightly smaller bite and you're sacrificing a wee bit of speed and it takes a tad more power to run.  the trade off is that the lower hook angle wears a bit better in difficult cutting conditions, thus they make up for the slightly slower cutting.  in softwoods however it seems that you're better off using a higher hook angle which means a faster feed, less build up, and generally better cutting performance.

[ladylake]

10° will cut a little bit faster in clear softwood, the 4° more than make up it in knotty pine.  Seems like most feed a lot slower soon as it gets wavy and 4° cuts staighter at a high feed rate.   Steve

[Chuck White]

Looks like I need to get some 4° blades, or convert 3 or 4 10° to 4° then, they should come in handy in May when I dive into a bunch of Spruce logs!

With the 10's I end up slowing my feed down quite a bit in Spruce.

[hamish]

Spruce is bad to cut with anything except a chainsaw!

[John Bartley]

Spruce is bad to cut with anything except a chainsaw!

Ummmm  not in my experience. The only trouble I've had with Spruce is when I don't have enough set. I'm running a 10° angle in not-frozen wood and about 0.028" set, and I can cut as straight as laser line. This applies equally to frozen and not frozen and is the same experience I've had with White Pine.  I have tried setting the sharpening angle back to 7° for frozen wood with good success, but while the tooth stays sharp longer, I still seem to need close to 30 thous of set in the knotty, pitchy stuff to avoid doing the wave.

John

[barbender]

I just sawed some white spruce yesterday with a WM 7°, it sawed nice and straight, and it did have a few knots in it. I've had good experience with the 7's on pine, oak, spruce, and black ash. I had some green ash give me some trouble, it is a low moisture wood and it may have been the spot for 4° bands. The only 4° band I tried was.on some red pine, and I wasn't that impressed with it in that application.

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
There are lots of variable to blades. Hook angle, Set, back angle and the list goes on.
I have found that every mill is not the same. Owners cutting speed, blade tension, hp, wood, dirt, bark and the list goes on an on.

WM blades ( others may be different)

the 4 degree has a high tooth .250",  32 degree back angle
the 7 degree has a high tooth .295" and a 34 degree back angle
the 9 degree has a low tooth .220" and a 29 degree back angle

If you have a 15 hp mill and you are sawing some tough or frozen wood. This owner may have only sawed 15 logs since new. I may help you chose a different blade than a owner sawing the same wood with a 55+ hp mill and with expert sawing experience.

We have many customes who use the 4 degree blade even on the LT10 and they work great.

Hope this helps.
Marty

[ladylake]

Spruce is bad to cut with anything except a chainsaw!

Ummmm  not in my experience. The only trouble I've had with Spruce is when I don't have enough set. I'm running a 10° angle in not-frozen wood and about 0.028" set, and I can cut as straight as laser line. This applies equally to frozen and not frozen and is the same experience I've had with White Pine.  I have tried setting the sharpening angle back to 7° for frozen wood with good success, but while the tooth stays sharp longer, I still seem to need close to 30 thous of set in the knotty, pitchy stuff to avoid doing the wave.

John

  John  How wide are you cutting spruce straight?   Making a 20" wide cut with a brand new 10° it looked like the ocean, then put on a 4° with a lot of set and it cut good.  As he didn't need 20" + we cut those big ones in half, when down to 12" or so cut nice at a good feed rate.  Steve

[customsawyer]

Steve one of the reasons that your resharpened 4° blades are cutting better is that the cutting edge is square to the cut. When you have a new blade the cutting edge tends to be a little out of square due to the heavy set after it is sharpened. Setting after resharpening is not as bad cause you are only adding a few thousandths of set. IMHO.

[ladylake]

 
That makes sence, I set then sharpen.  I believe the 7° blade at the start of this thread was factory sharpened.  Steve

[John Bartley]

  John  How wide are you cutting spruce straight?   Making a 20" wide cut with a brand new 10° it looked like the ocean, then put on a 4° with a lot of set and it cut good.  As he didn't need 20" + we cut those big ones in half, when down to 12" or so cut nice at a good feed rate.  Steve

A couple of the Spruce I was cutting needed trimming with the chainsaw to get the millhead over the butt flare. My mill will clear 29", and I was just clearing many of them. I won;t say with any authority, but it's my opinion (from experience) that tooth angle, much like tooth angle on a chainsaw will decide how long a tooth stays cutting efficiently in different hardnesses of wood, whereas the set will decide how flat (lack of wave) the cut will be. I've had fresh sharpened, but thinly set bands produce a bad wave in the same wood where a dull band with wide set cuts dead flat, but really slow. I've never sharpened as tall as 4°. That's almost a vertical tooth face, but I'll bet that it would last a lot longer in frozen wood than my 10° bands, or even the 7° that I tried and had good success with.

John

[ladylake]

 
This time I increased the set as these blades didn't have much and went to 4° at the same time with way better results, but other times I just went from 10° to 4° with way better results. This morning I sharpened anouther 7° blade down to 4° without increasing the set and it didn't do good.  I'm out to resharpen and increase the set now, will report back later.   Steve

[Jemclimber]

WM blades ( others may be different)

the 4 degree has a high tooth .250",  32 degree back angle
the 7 degree has a high tooth .295" and a 34 degree back angle
the 9 degree has a low tooth .220" and a 29 degree back angle

Hi Marty,
When you say high tooth and low tooth, is that referring to the depth of the gullet or something else?

[steve marek]

when you sharpen your blades at 4 degree how set are putting on the blades

[ND rancher]

OK guys now I've got more questions as I follow this. #1 a good 4° blade to get? #2 I have a dino sharpener that I,m trying to figure out and it only goes to 8°. Would I take hear out of square? #3 Where can I get a reasonable priced setter? #4 When setting how do you determine what set to start with on this hard oak I have? 20° or more? The idea of setting before sharpening makes sense to me.I'm sure there are more questions to come.Hoping for some sun and 20° by weekend so I can try those 7° lenox blades that came today. Thanks Keith

[woodhick]

I have been running Woodmizer 4* bands for several years.  They are all I run on Oaks or anything harder.  I also use them on knotty pine.  Poplar I will use a 9*.    The 4's will cause you to slow down on the feed rate but I have always gotten a better cut.  Thats on a LT40 with 25hp.  Mill hp can make a difference as Marty states.  What works for one may not work for another.

[bandmiller2]

Keith, I've never had a good look at a Dino sharpener.Whats stopping the head from going less than 8 degrees.?? Prehaps you could modify the stop,if not mayby move the rollers that the band rides on,four degrees is not much if you look at it.Personally I don't think a couple of degrees ether way make much differance its set and how sharp the tooth is that matters.I start out with 10 degree bands and sharpen to somewhat less.As far as setters go theirs no free lunch depends on how much you cut,if your busy by all means get a two sided setter if your a hobby cutter you could get by with a one toother,setting is the worst part of sharpening. Frank C.

[ND rancher]

Frank C.There are a series of settings that start on top of the frame.Top being 8° bottom 22°,no enough room to get another hole at top.That is why I thought about moving the head out of square. I think the set is the big factor also so given my time schedule a two sided is best.  I guess I would call myself top of the list hobby cutter.Between ranch duties and grand kids,and the weather I don't know when I can cut. I want to go non stop cause don't when the next chance will be.  Keith

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

I put my first 7 degree blade on yesterday and I must say I was impressed. I cut a pine an oak and a poplar with good results. Good speed and nice staight cuts. Cant wait to try a 4 degree! Brian

[barbender]

My Cook's sharpener came with threaded index holes, it onlt goes down to 8°. I slid it past tightened it down to sharpen 7°.