Buying firewood by the log truck load to resele.

[saxon0364]

Ive been selling Firewood for about 15 years. Ive never made it through a winter without selling every stick I had seasoned. Some years only 30 or 40 cords. Some years close to 100 cords. Some years Ive lost track. Book keeping was never my strong point.
Now, I get most of my wood bringing it home a pickup load at a time from logging jobs, cut offs, drag a few tops out, as long as the company I'm cutting for is okay with it and most are. But this doesn't add up to fast. I don't get wood every day and the truck is full of equipment so I cant fit more than a few rows across the back.
I get some paying for it to land owners who have their land recently logged. But this is time consuming and its really only something to keep me busy between logging jobs.
I get some for free cleaning up storm damage trees and what not for people. I cut some on my own land every year but not more than two or three cords. Al this like I said gets me to between 30 and 100 cords a year.
I'd like to make a good part time business out of firewood. Id like to sell about 200 to 225 cords a year. Or more, maybe much more. I think I can move it.
Around here a cord of good seasoned wood sells for about $150 picked up and between $180 and $200 delivered. Ive seen higher, and Ive seen much lower. And what I have noticed is by about the middle of Jan. most of the ads selling firewood are pretty well dried up. The ones selling wood cheap seem to dry up first. Last year I ran a test. I cut out a bunch of ads in Nov. and Dec. I waited till the end of Jan and called them all. Some never returned my call, and the ones that did, very few still had wood and a few offered "semi" seasoned wood. Wonder what that is?
Id like to be the guy with wood ALL THE TIME. Sell it to campers in the summer, yes, I have a place I can do that. And the year round outdoor wood burner folks.
So, about the only way I can figure to get that much wood is to buy some of it in log truck loads of poles. They are going from $700 to $800 a load delivered.
If I charge a base price of $150 a cord, and get 6 to 7 cords of wood per truck (I think most loads are between 6 and 7 cords split and stacked) and pay $700 for the truck load that doesn't leave much. I guess between $300 and $400 per load. Or somewheres around $50 per cord profit. My wife (who is smarter than me) says that's not enough, with the added cost of bars,chains, fuel, splitter parts and splitter fuel. And whatever else burns, bends, or breaks.
I think its alright.
So, what do you guys think? Any body else doing this?

[Bandmill Bandit]

price of all wood products varies by region for sure but around here a cord of good clean birch or tamarack sells at about 350 on the low end to as much as 600 on the upper end. You can get junk wood for a lot less ($200 ish) but the price per BTU is about the same.

[NWP]

Listen to your wife.  There is a lot more costs to factor in than just the cost of the logs.  As you said, you have to figure in the cost of all your associated equipment.  How are you splitting this?  It sounds like you work another job also.  Will you have to hire help in order to process all this extra wood?  If so, you will be about breaking even. You may be better off selling 50 cords with a $100 per cord profit rather than selling 200 cords at $25 profit.

Believe me, I've been in the firewood business for 22 years.  We do buy logs by the truck load but are selling it at a higher price than $150 and sometimes it still feels like I'm spinning my wheels.  One of my quotes I use from time to time is, "One thing leads to another that leads to another that leads to another."  Once you start expanding, you will find that you might need another saw, then another truck, then something to move logs with, then a bigger splitter.  Once you get going and have a lot of customers and are into it deep, then you need reliable equipment/trucks because if you're wrenching on something, it's not making you money.

I'm not trying to dissuade you, I would just caution you to plan carefully.  You could always get a couple of loads and see how it goes.  Another thing to consider is value adding to your product.  Selling firewood bundles to the campground is one way to get more than $150 per cord.  Sorting out certain species is another.  Restaurants and weekend smokers will pay good money for woods like hickory, pecan, apple, cherry, white oak.  No matter how big you get, you will always be competing with the weekend warrior wood seller with no overhead so you have to be able to offer something he isn't.  Reliability.

It sounds like you probably have some good logging contacts so maybe you can get some good deals.  If its a possibility in your area, maybe you can get some tree service wood for free or sawmill rejects that may have a little metal in them.

You already know that firewood is a lot of work and you know what it takes to get it done.  Be efficient as possible.  Every time you handle a stick of wood it's costing money and time.  Good luck.  I'd be happy to answer more questions, I probably left some things out.

[muddstopper]

I have two thoughts on this. If you want to have wood to sale late in the winter, and only a limited amount 0f wood, start with high prices and stick to it. This way, if you run out of wood early, at least you made all you could off of it. I know a guy with a processor that splits and stacks all year. When everybody is cutting and selling wood, he is too. Only he doesnt try to compete on price with all the quick buck artist out there. When the season gets late, he is still selling wood when everybody else has run out and he still gets the same price.

Second, paying high prices for wood just so you will have some to sale, doesnt mean you will make more money per season. Having the wood delivered in log lengths might cost you more than cutting hauling the wood yourself, and it might not. Only you can answer that question. But it sounds as if you are getting the bulk of your wood from the company you work for, using there trucks to hual it with, and possibly their saws to cut it with, and doing so on their time. If that is the case, you might not be making as much as you think you are once you add in the expenses of using your equipment on your time.

[snowstorm]

there was a peice in the northern logger magazine this fall about a guy here in maine that sells several thousand cd a year. it was pretty interesting he has a klim to dry it

[saxon0364]

. But it sounds as if you are getting the bulk of your wood from the company you work for, using there trucks to hual it with, and possibly their saws to cut it with, and doing so on their time.

Thanks for the replies guys. Good points made.
I'm a subcontractor. My saws, my fuel, my truck, my insurance. The only thing the company supplies is the timber I cut. 
     I guess what I'm thinking is that it pretty much depends on how many cords I get on a tri axle load.    I sell racks of firewood in town now for $60 a rack.  The rack is a third of a cord (face cord). So those cords end up going for $180.  but I have to run down to town and fill the rack.   8 mile round trip. 
   Also if I continue to collect wood as I always have some cords would see a higher profit.  Close to $110 per cord. 
I have a good splitter and plenty of room.   And unfortunately, I have the time.   Some times I see weeks, or once in a while months off from logging when things get slow. 

[bill m]

If you know and can guarantee you will have good quality seasoned wood available year round raise your prices. You may lose a few customers who are always looking for a bargain but buyers who know you can provide what they want when they want it will pay a premium.

[doctorb]

As an OWB owner who buys some of the fuel I use each year, I would like to echo Bill M's post.  I want clean (no gravel, dirt) seasoned wood of equal lengths.  If it costs 50$ more per cord and is fully seasoned (at least one year), stacks well, isn't full of junk, is 100% good hardwood species (no poplar, pine, etc.), and is delivered where I want it delivered by someone I can trust on my property when I am not there, then that 50$ per cord is well worth it IMO.  As the winter progresses, if you are the only guy with seasoned firewood able to burn right then, then the price is worth it.  Either way, you should forget about the cheap competition.  Get yourself a moisture meter to show your customers how dry your wood is.

My advice is to be very specific and consistant with your product, and you'll make more $ with less work.

[muddstopper]

The prices you are paying for tandem loads are far higher than I would have to pay. Look for other sources of cheap wood. You already get wood from your logging outfit you work for. I try to keep good relationships with the local grading and building contractors. Usually if they are preparing a new house site, there are a few trees that need to be removed. First off, dont clear the sites for them just for the wood, it would have to be a spectacular site with very good wood before I would even consider it. In other words, charge for cutting and removing the wood, you are performing a service to them and you should get paid for doing it. Second, lots of times the contractors will cut the wood themselfs and have to get rid of it, usually not enought wood to sell for timber so it goes to a dump, in a hole somewhere, or what ever. Usually you can get them to hual it to your lot for just the fuel bill. As you already mentioned, storm damaged trees can usually be found and you can get paid to remove those also. A lot just depends on what you have to work with as to how you want to get your wood. One of the biggest mistakes I see is people thinking they can remove a tree for someone just for the wood. This might be alright if you are getting the tree for your own stove, but if you want to be in the wood business, you need to get paid everytime you handle the wood.

[NWP]

I second what muddstopper said.  We charge developers and contractors to remove trees/brush from building sites and new development.  We obviously have to take everything and not just the good logs.  Since we produce mulch we have something to use all the wood for.  It works out well.

[shelbycharger400]

I do clearing of treelines, for a few farmers for all the " free"  trees. 
Seems even on my end their is a lot of stuff that dosnt get used.
I don't have to go trollin for wood.  These boys are commercial farmers, If I don't come and get them, they get burnt.  These guys have 1000's of acres not that far from home here.
Firewood sales this year and last year have been slow.
Not cold and lots of it available from all the summer storms ect.

I have been haulin some of the logs home to mill
Some logs were hauled to a mill
Even now my hobby wood for sale has slowed way down.

I have been picking my brain and contemplating on building stuff for sale.

[r.man]

Your truck price and cord price don't match for my area. Truckload of logs is about 800 delivered and a bush cord or firewood wood be 240 picked up. 6 bush per truckload minimum so the truck generates 1440, 640 above cost. You notice I didn't say profit. So here you can apply 106 per bush to your costs. I think that the other advice given was very good, increase your price to recover your out of pocket, including wear and tear and wages and also add a bit for future replacement or upgrades. Time is money so work smart as well as hard. Try a few loads, give it a year at a higher price and stick to it. Premium price for premium service.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Premium price for premium service.

AND Premium QUALITY, CLEAN fire wood. You will be amazed that the clientele you will attract IF you have clean fire wood! AND they dont even bark about the price. Even at 800 a cord (for Birch & Tamarack) in this part of the world. Clean, Bagged in 1/2 cu/ft bags delivered to the driveway on a pallet, and most of them pay cash on delivery.   

[thecfarm]

Birch and tamarck,$800 a cord!!! WOW. How much is oil a gallon?? I think the highest I see is $350 a cord. Most charge 200-250. Or did. Probably should check this years prices before pumping my gums too much.  ;D

[Bandmill Bandit]

Birch and tamarck,$800 a cord!!! WOW. How much is oil a gallon?? I think the highest I see is $350 a cord. Most charge 200-250. Or did. Probably should check this years prices before pumping my gums too much.  ;D

I know I think its stupid but there are 2 guys that I know personally doing it and they deliver to the bigger cities in Alberta and also to Vancouver. 

I know one of the guys pretty well and he said 90 per cent of the wood is for the "aesthetic" value of a "crackling fire" and a real nice stack of clean fire wood be side the house AND beside the fire place. He said it has nothing to do with heating at all.  Says he sells about 80% of what he processes to those kind of clients and every one pays CASH.

I will say this. ONLY IN ALBERTA! only place on the planet where we have hell for a basement that provides the economic ability to build million plus dollar homes and then burn wood for the hell of it just cause it looks cool.

[saxon0364]

Birch and tamarck,$800 a cord!!! WOW. How much is oil a gallon?? I think the highest I see is $350 a cord. Most charge 200-250. Or did. Probably should check this years prices before pumping my gums too much.  ;D

I will say this. ONLY IN ALBERTA! only place on the planet where we have hell for a basement that provides the economic ability to build million plus dollar homes and then burn wood for the hell of it just cause it looks cool.

Thats funny, but what ever floats their boat.

[Corley5]

I can't make it pencil.  At least good enough to make it worth my while.  I can buy 20 cords of hardwood for 1,400.00 delivered.  Once I figure in my costs to process and deliver it I'm wearing out my equipment for little profit.  It's better with hardwood pulp I produce myself but at the same time I can sell all of it I can produce and don't have $$$ tied up waiting for it to season.  Processing and selling green for people to season on their own time or outdoor boiler owners who want green is how I'm doing it now.  I'm done with seasoned wood. 

[NWP]

Processing and selling green for people to season on their own time or outdoor boiler owners who want green is how I'm doing it now.  I'm done with seasoned wood.

I agree.  I would love to have a bunch of seasoned wood. I used to do that, but it is a lot of money tied up sitting there.  If I can sell it green or only slightly seasoned, I do it. I always let the customer know. Most of my repeat customers have figured out to buy their wood in the spring/summer.  A lot of the restaurants we service want the wood green so that makes it easy.

[timberjack 450]

I live in upstate NY and I sell firewood for $225 a full cord. That's been my price for 5 years. I will be going up alittle next year. That's about the average price in this area. Sometimes I have to buy triaxle loads if I don'y get alot of clearing jobs. I would only buy from one guy. His wood is perfect for my processor.Debarked and straight about 16" in diamater. He gets 100 a cord delivered. I could get it cheaper but the wood is nasty( full of mud,crooked and huge) Too much time lost processing it. Don't get me wrong.I try not to buy any at all but sometimes you do what you have to.