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Vertical jointer

Started by hackberry jake, December 21, 2012, 10:48:42 PM

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hackberry jake

I have a cheap old craftsman 6" jointer. When I go to joint 12"-20" wide boards, it's a pain in the neck trying to keep it flush against the fence. I'm thinking about buying another el cheapie jointer and modifying it. Turn the jointing head 90 degrees and building a horizontal fence out of mdf or steel plate or something. You would just lay the board down on the fence and push it against the jointer as you fed it. Do they already make such a thing? Any reasons this wouldn't work?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

LeeB

You can do it that way with a router table. You just build up the outfeed side of the fence to match the depth of cut. I would think the belt might give you trouble with the jointer idea.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

beenthere

The idea is a good one, IMO.
Years back, a millwork guy that I used had a long workbench on one side of his shop. That had a vertical head (likely a shaper head) that was in the backsplash that became the fence (adjustable for depth of cut). Before making jambs, flooring, paneling and the like, he would joint one edge by laying the board on his bench and pushing it past the head. Served as a good straightline rip. Handled wide boards as well as the narrow ones.
Don't recall if he had a jointer for jointing one face or if the vertical jointer was the first step on rough lumber.
Often had the thought that I'd build such a machine, but didn't find the right parts for the head and drive. Built the bench, but that is the extent of that venture.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

In a production situation, we might first use a straight line rip (SLR) saw to get a fairly straight, true edge.  Then you can use a router with a long fence.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

hackberry jake

I have a 718 woodmaster with the ripsaw blades. I just need to build a sled to use it correctly. To use a slr you need to cut at least 1/4" off the guide side to be sure it's straight. The sideways jointer would be used before the woodmaster so I wouldn't have to use a blade on the "good" side of the woodmaster and so I wouldn't have the 1/4" waste on every board every time I sent it through. I am about to start a medium sized custom trim job. Just trying to work out the kinks.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Too Big To Fail

If going dead vertical with the modified jointer would potentially cause problems, I wonder if you could just cock it to 45 degrees or so.  Heavy boards would tend to hold themselves in against the table and fence at that kind of angle.

Axe Handle Hound

Is the issue just that your existing jointer fence isn't tall enough and doesn't support your board as you feed it over the cutter head?  If so, why not increase the height of your fence?  Using a horizontal approach on a router table has definitely been done as others have said, but it brings it's own issues.  You have to make certain to shim the outfeed side of the fence proud of the infeed side so it matches the amount the cutterhead is taking off.  Sounds easy and should be able to be done with a thin shim or couple pieces of tape or something, but I could never make it work as well as i wanted.  There was always a certain amount of snipe and I would get slightly bowed edges on the boards.  Fine for most things, but I was edge gluing so it wasn't acceptable.  i solved the problem by making my own shop made jig to edge wide, long boards like the ones that make up my dining table.  Just glue/screw a narrow straight edged batten like the edge of a piece of MDF or melamine to a piece of 1/4" tempered hardboard.  The width of the hardboard (from the batten to the edge of the hardboard) has to be 1/8" greater than the distance from the edge of your router baseplate to the edge of the straight bit you put in it.  Once you have the batten in place you put the router against the batten and run it down the jig to cut off the excess hardboard.  Now you know exactly where your router bit will run.  Clamp the jig to the board you want to joint making sure the edge of the hardboard is in line with the straight edge you want on the board and away you go.  As long as you keep the same side of the router against the batten and use the same straight bit every time you should be able to use the same jig for a long time. 

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

To cut a straight cut on or near the edge, we use a hogging blade, which is considerably thicker than a regular blade so it will not bend or follow the grain, but will stay "on the straight and narrow."
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Kcwoodbutcher

Delta used to make a machine like you describe . I think it was called a vertiplane.  There are still a few around and they are generally cheap because the idea never caught on.
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

woodhick

Quote from: Kcwoodbutcher on December 23, 2012, 01:22:01 AM
Delta used to make a machine like you describe . I think it was called a vertiplane.  There are still a few around and they are generally cheap because the idea never caught on.

Actually called a uniplane.  Used carbide teeth which are non-existant if you do find a machine.  I would recommend a larger jointer first.  If you dont want to go that route then a shaper with a jointing head and long fence.  I also knew a guy who used a large 16" dewalt radial arm saw with a long fence for a straight line rip setup years ago.  Worked pretty well for him.
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

stumpy

I have wrestled for a couple years with cutting large slabs and getting then straight for glue up.  I finally broke down and bought a FESTOOL.  It is an over sized circular saw that rides on a track.  It has a riving blade that hangs behind the saw blade to keep the material you're cutting from closing up.  I can now cut a 3" thick 10' long Oak slab and have a surface that is ready for glue up.  The tool was expensive, but honestly, it's the best money I've spent on a tool since I bought my WOODMIZER.. Most of my furniture is thick slabs so this tool has paid for itself in saved time and improved results. 
Woodmizer LT30, NHL785 skidsteer, IH 444 tractor

ScottAR

A Festool track saw is on my want list as well.  Dewalt and Makita also have offerings although I'm not sure of the specs on either.  Mafell also offer track saws; some with more capacity than any listed above.
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

venice

Jake,

for your reference what a factory made unit looks like. This one was made by Holz-Her in Germany. The motor has about 3kw-380V, the cutterhead is 80 to 100 mm in dia, working height is 120mm. Lenght about 1600 mm. Around here it´s called a angel jointer or jointing fence.

Always wanted one myself but they don`t build them anymore and the used units that surface once in a while are quite expensive.

If you got trouble to keep your boards upright against the fence, try a roller behind the outfeed table for support(assuming your table is pretty short). Other options wood be a feeder, featherboards or a springloaded roller to keep the board vertical at the fence. This would allow you to focus on applying downward force to keep your board on the table.

For long and heavy boards i`ve used a shaper with a straight cutterhead and a feeder or featherboards. Rollers or a table extension for support on the infeed and outfeed table. Works great.

Good luck with your project. venice



 

rooster 58

     I recently made a long fenced router table to straight edge longer pieces. I made it from MDF and wrapped it with some sheet formica so it wouldn't get gouged apart. I can straight edge pieces perfectly now up to 5 ft. long

ely

great idea with this thread, i wish i would have had this dialog two years ago. i have an extra jointer that i plan to do this project with, i like the 45° angle idea so far.

Tree Feller

A vertical jointer would work good on board edges but face jointing would be a female dog.

A glueline rip blade will give you glue-ready edges on the tablesaw (assuming you have a straight edge already).

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=freud+glue+line+rip+blade&tag=googhydr-20&index=tools&hvadid=3576681471&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1710103643226899124&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_5aqolrvjqc_b









Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

venice

Cody,

the "vertical jointer" is not a stand alone machine. It will be mounted instead of the regular fence on the jointer. This way you can do both, the face and one edge with the same pass. I have a couple pic's of a complete machine i used to work with. Unfortunately my picture archiv is down at the moment. I'll post them as soon as i fixed the problem if you guys are interested.

Have a nice weekend. venice

David Freed

Quote from: hackberry jake on December 22, 2012, 01:42:57 AM
I have a 718 woodmaster with the ripsaw blades. I just need to build a sled to use it correctly. To use a slr you need to cut at least 1/4" off the guide side to be sure it's straight. The sideways jointer would be used before the woodmaster so I wouldn't have to use a blade on the "good" side of the woodmaster and so I wouldn't have the 1/4" waste on every board every time I sent it through. I am about to start a medium sized custom trim job. Just trying to work out the kinks.
Many months ago someone complained and I was reprimanded for posting what most people I know would consider helpful info. I guess I'll try again and see what happens.

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1609&pid=59171#top_display_media

These pics are of the 718 I special ordered and used as a straight-line gang-rip saw. It had an adjustable fence (a 12' long piece of angle iron) on the infeed side so it only removed the minimum amount of wood needed to get a straight edge on each board. You can see the adjustment handles sticking out at the front of the table in several of the pictures. Number 6 and 7 show the handle and fence in the in and out position. It had a laser aimed on the infeed table in line with the blade that did the straight edging so you could easily see where to set the fence.

We would plane the lumber to the thickness needed for whatever we were making (flooring, drawer sides, frame stock, etc.). Then we would make one pass through the saw and one pass through the 4 head moulder.

Tree Feller

Quote from: venice on February 02, 2013, 04:28:58 AM
Cody,

the "vertical jointer" is not a stand alone machine. It will be mounted instead of the regular fence on the jointer. This way you can do both, the face and one edge with the same pass. I have a couple pic's of a complete machine i used to work with. Unfortunately my picture archiv is down at the moment. I'll post them as soon as i fixed the problem if you guys are interested.

Have a nice weekend. venice

Jake was talking about purchasing a second, cheap jointer, turning the bed and cutterhead vertical and building a new horizontal bed from MDF. That would be a stand-alone vertical jointer.

Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

venice

Yes, that would be stand alone. And doing the face on it a female dog.  ;D

Looks like there is a misunderstanding on my part. Knowing the two-sided jointer i thought Jake is aiming for something like that.

Thanks for clarification. venice


venice

As promised some pictures of a machine i had in mind. It's a dedicated 2-sided jointer made by "Panhans" with a tilted bed to keep the workpiece at the fence. This particular model was designed with door and window builders in mind. Therefore the long and narrow table.

Have a good one. venice



 


 


 


 


 


hackberry jake

Boy, that looks like the cats meow! How wide of board will it face?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

venice


hackberry jake

How much would one of those cost? Where would I get one?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

venice

I've never seen a Panhans up for sale(they don't make them anymore). Pretty rare and build to last. But i guess it would run somewhere around 5000,- Euro...

Saw two offers from Germany today for regular jointers with the added Holz-her fence. One older model 18" at 1500.00 and a 1994 SCM 19" at 3750.00, one Holz-her fence at 200.00 but i am sure it will fetch more than that.

Let me know if you need the contact or want me to give them a call. ;D



 

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