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Skidder advice

Started by Woodboogah, December 20, 2012, 11:21:46 AM

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Woodboogah

Hello all.  I am in need of some advice.  I am looking to purchase a new to me skidder.  Not really set on any manufacturer, just something that is small, simple to work on, and reliable.  As of now I am in the woods with a small tractor and doing other small odd jobs with it up0n request.  I would like to make the jump to stick in the woods and after some phone calls to county forester and some others I feel that it would be a good investment and the work is there.  I have a budget of 12000 that I would like to stick to, under if possible.  However, ultimatley I would like a turn key, go to work machine that needs little to no work.  I understand the nature of the beast and its mechanical and something can and will happen.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

mad murdock

I think a lot will depend on what is available near your neck o the woods in a used machine. A lot of the older machines had many off the shelf parts, with one shining exception being JD, but their support has always been very good. An older TreeFarmer, Timberjack, Franklin, Clark, or IH would probably do you just as well depending on condition of the machine your looking at. My personal preference is to manual transmissions, as repairs generally cost less, but a well maintained and in good condition auto (power shift) can really perform over a manual tranny, and last a long time, it really comes down to how it has been operated and cared for, like any piece of equipment. You looking for a cable skidder, or a forwarder? What kind o wood are you typically cutting and producing?  Sometimes an old forwarder(short wood skidder) is nice depends on the type of ground you are typically on and such, generally a cable machine is all around most versitle IMO.  Throw out a specific brand and model and we can give you feedback tailored to that model. There are just a lot of variables as to engines used, winch differences etc.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Woodboogah

I have run a timberjack 230e that was not mine, it was a good machine, did what it was supposed to do, and like anything else had its mechanical problems.  I didnt want to brand bias just because that is all I have run I didnt want to just look at tj's.  Mostly pine and oak with other northern hardwoods in the mix.  The ground varies mostly old farm land that went to forest.  Failry flat, not so rocky, pretty easy going.  I am looking at a cable skidder just because it is me, I dont have a buncher, nor do I want to try tp purchase one.  I like being a one man and machine show, low overhead.  I was told if I could find one in good shape a JD 540b (pretty sure that was the model) would be a good way to go, and if I could find a grapple with cable in good shape to snatch it up and it would give me the option to skid behind a buncher.  I would like to stick with a detroit, although not opposed of another motor as long as its dependable and easy to get parts and work on.  Thanks for the response
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

mad murdock

A 540 is a good machine, other brands in that class size would be a TreeFarmer C5D, an IH S8, a Garrett model 21, (probably not too many of those back east), a Mountain Logger, a Clark 664, a TJ 240, or a Franklin 170 maybe, (not too sure on the Franklin models of Cable machines).  Detroit 53 series is good power, as is Perkins and Deutz. I have not been around Cummins in skidders, only log trucks with Cummins. I think for fuel efficiency, they all are pretty good. 
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

logman81

Get a c5d tree farmer, I just bought one and absolutly love it. Very simple machine everything is easy to adjust and work on. Parts are still easy to get for them and it is a tough and reliable machine.
Precision Firewood & Logging

timberjackrob

I love the 200 series timberjacks a simple machine that gets the work done. :snowman:
208 timberjack, woodmizer lt28,case 455 trackloader with gearmatic winch,massey 4710, ford f250s ford f700

Woodboogah

I never had an issue with the TJ I ran.  I wanted to keep options open with only running that one machine.  The other draw back is to find a machine in the area that is in good shape ready to run.  I am not going to be picky, just want a turn key machine that is dependable, easy to find parts, and relativley easy to work on it if need be.  If anyone in NH, or surrounding area give me a holler!
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Woodboogah

I have found two TJ one a 225 and one a 207D.  I am not sure the about what letters mean what?  I have looked for the weight of the 207D and found a weight of 11800lbs, that doesnt sound right to me.  The 225 is 1968 the owner states everything mechanical has been rebuilt, the 207 looks to be in good shape, have not seen either in person.  Both about 3.5 hours from here.  How much smaller in physical size and power is the 207?  Thanks again for all the advice. 
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

mad murdock

I would hazard a guess that the "D" stands for Diesel.  It sounds like it is about the size of a C4D Tree Farmer, a C5 size would probably be more to what you are looking for size wise, similar to a 540JD. 
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

grassfed

If you can find a 540b with a grapple and winch that runs well for 12k or less (and OK tires) buy it.  A JD 4-276 is better than any Detroit (I love Detroits but... ::)). You should budget for a good set of chains if they are not included. 
Mike

ga jones

Biggest difference in 207 and 230 is the axles in the 207 are a lot lighter. The letter after 200 has to do with the generation. Just did a head on a 230 d with a 353 Detroit power shift eaton winch. Nice machine to work on. My c 4 tree farmer is a little easier to work on but not much. Gear matrix winches require a lot of maintain I wouldn't own one myself the cant set for long periods without being used the bands freeze.im sure others will disagree with me on that but they are more fickle than others u can't disagree with that.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

jocco

VERY FICKLE >:( WORSE THAN MY EX-WIFE) :Mrs_Claus: :rifle:




Quote from: ga jones on December 21, 2012, 03:10:09 PM
Biggest difference in 207 and 230 is the axles in the 207 are a lot lighter. The letter after 200 has to do with the generation. Just did a head on a 230 d with a 353 Detroit power shift eaton winch. Nice machine to work on. My c 4 tree farmer is a little easier to work on but not much. Gear matrix winches require a lot of maintain I wouldn't own one myself the cant set for long periods without being used the bands freeze.im sure others will disagree with me on that but they are more fickle than others u can't disagree with that.
You may check out but you will never leave

lumberjack48

Gearmatic winch, stick shift, 353 Detroit. 12 bolt rear ends, this is what i would buy. Its called a poor mans skidder.

The thing about a Gearmatic, in my 30 yrs of working with them and being around them i replace one set of brake bands. Rebuilt 4 or 5 master controls.

I would love to buy a JD skidder, but if it broke down, i wouldn't have the money to fix it. I've seen guys loose the skidder and loose their job because they couldn't afford to fix it.

I love a Power Shift, if it goes legs up like a dead chicken you better have the knowledge to fix it, could cost 6 to 9k.  :christmas:
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

loggah

You wouldn't go wrong with a older 225,230 timberjack ,or a c5,c6 treefarmer, the tree farmers are a bit easier to work on ,but they are both good old woods tractors. My uncle Bob used to be the chief of police ,and later the road agent in Sandown for many years,been a while since i been down there. Don
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

timberjackrob

Quote from: mad murdock on December 21, 2012, 01:08:21 PM
I would hazard a guess that the "D" stands for Diesel.  It sounds like it is about the size of a C4D Tree Farmer, a C5 size would probably be more to what you are looking for size wise, similar to a 540JD.
yep ga jones is right the axles is the main diffrence. i have seen a place called nash equipment on line that has lots of used skidders but they seem a little pricey i think they are in new hampshire. :snowman:
208 timberjack, woodmizer lt28,case 455 trackloader with gearmatic winch,massey 4710, ford f250s ford f700

timberjackrob

whoops responded to wrong quote lol :laugh:
208 timberjack, woodmizer lt28,case 455 trackloader with gearmatic winch,massey 4710, ford f250s ford f700

logman81

Precision Firewood & Logging

EricR

Quote from: Woodboogah on December 21, 2012, 08:58:44 AM
I have found two TJ one a 225 and one a 207D.  I am not sure the about what letters mean what?  I have looked for the weight of the 207D and found a weight of 11800lbs, that doesnt sound right to me.  The 225 is 1968 the owner states everything mechanical has been rebuilt, the 207 looks to be in good shape, have not seen either in person.  Both about 3.5 hours from here.  How much smaller in physical size and power is the 207?  Thanks again for all the advice. 
Im pretty sure i saw the 225 that your talking about.  The picture shows that it has the 8 lug rims not the 12.  im no timberjack expert but i would think that that would mean that they are the same axles that the 207 would have.  someone on here could probablly clear that up for you

ga jones

225 had 12 lug if it has 8 lug it's a 201 207 208 . 12 lug 225 230 240 I have broken 8 Lug axles. You have to be gentle with them. I replaced it with an 8 lug pr67 out of a c5 .Franklin also used the same axles.franklins are getting hard to get parts for.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

lumberjack48

The only C5 that had a 8 bolt axle was the pulpwood special. This is the same axle the C4's have, the pw special is a C4 frame and running gear. They took the C4 and stuck a 3-53 Detroit in it and added a bigger winch then the model 9 Gearmatic and stuck a C5 sticker on it.

The original C5-D's all have 12 bolt axle's, 3-53 DT, Big Ford, 4 cylinder diesel, 5 cylinder Deutz, these are the only engines i seen in the C5-D, Perkins ?

I logger with a C4, with the Ford gas and one with Perkins. They both had the model 9 Gearmatic winch, very good winch. Depending on the ground and timber we pulled 10 to 30 cds a day. The C4 is a fun little skidder to log with, its like any skidder when used with in its expectations, it gets the job done. 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

ga jones

I do believe your right lumberjack. I believe the 8 lug pr 67 axle I took out of the c5 was originally in a 105 Franklin the mounting plates were moved.the other c5s that I've seen had 12 lug.were also talking about machines that are 30 plus years old. Things can wear out be changed mixed up cobbled together my c4 is a 1964 it's been rebuilt a couple of times.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Woodboogah

WOW, thanks for all the responses, I go up North for two days to mark timber and come back to some good feedback, thanks all.  I have found two treefarmers that are well within my price range.  Both C6's one and 84 one and 89  Both with deutz motors.  Not so local but more so then everything else I have been looking at.  Try to look at them this week after Christmas.  Thanks a lot everyone it is much appreciated!!
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

loggah

If the 89 C6 is in Bristol, i know the original owner who owned it up until a few years ago, you might want a little history on it before you buy it.  Don
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

treefarmer87

c5s and c6s are really good. you should go look at both of the c6s, and they have a good motor. i have a c6 and i dont need another skidder, unless its a grapple. for your budget you might find a good grapple machine too.
1994 Ford L9000
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Woodboogah

I am hoping by the first of the year there will a new to me machine in my yard.  Thanks again everyone for the advice and what not!
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

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