What to pay for logs

[Okrafarmer]

I would love to have the job of triaging that pile at Ron's customer's place! And milling it up, too. The big metal detector will make it much easier on them. I believe there was one at Hancock Lumber when I worked there in 2000. I guess it may have cost more than my house.  :-\ It will save them that much over time, though, if they get up and running successfully.

[WDH]

At the big pine mill that I procured logs for, metal was a big issue.  We were always on a campaign to educate loggers about metal and when they were likely to find it like old hedgerows, old fence lines, and old abandoned house sites.  If a truck came in with visible metal, it was turned around and rejected.  The whole load.  That is costly to have to take a load back to the woods, but there had to be a deterrent because otherwise the loggers would be lax.  If it happened twice, the logger was in trouble and on probation.  Our policy was that you at least need to inspect the load, and if we can see metal at the scales, the logger/truck driver could have seen it too. 

[Ron Wenrich]

that's allot of timber, and I guess allot of expense? how much for the logs if I may be so bold to ask? by the ton most likely?

The cost for the logs is $0.  There's no weighing, there's no scaling.  They give a receipt to the guy that does the delivery.  There may be some government involved in this, not sure. 

Triage is to scan the logs with hand scanners, cut out the metal, buck and trim, and paint the length on the end.  They separate by length and not species, which is a mistake.  They also think that pine is worthless, so they separate pine from hardwoods.  Species identification is another problem that has to be tackled.  Their forester can't even separate them at this point. 

There was talk about tagging logs with a barcode.  I nixed that idea telling them their logs had too low of a value to warrant tagging and it was too expensive.  Tagging would be beneficial if they are paying for logs and wanted to regulate pricing by species and grade.  They can't control their inventory since they take all that are delivered.

I think they want to give the local government an idea of how much wood they take in.  I suggested getting a portable scales and weighing the trucks.  That way they could report that they kept out so many tons of waste from the landfills.  Those government officials would understand weight, but not footage.  Keep the local boys happy and things go a lot easier on you. 

Okra:

Do you think they don't separate the unusual stuff out?

WDH:

Good policy for woods grown trees and volumes like you were buying.  I've always had problems with loggers that would send in logs with visible metal.  When foresters are marking timber, they should be marking anything with visible metal and warning of anything suspect, and making volume deductions.  Some of them are lax, as well.

[WDH]

We all carried "Killer Tree" flagging tape with a skull and crossbones on it.  That way, anytime that you saw a tree on any of our tracts that you suspected had metal, it got flagged.  When the logging was done, these trees would be left for the red birds to nest in.  Deer stands were a big problem, especially the ones where spikes or old cotton picker spindles were used as steps.

The mill had twin bansaws and a chipping headrig.  The bandsaws were about 6" - 8" wide.  When one of those wrecked, all heck broke loose.   

[thecfarm]

3 acres that look like that?? WOW!!! would take a couple more to sort it and stack it.

[Seaman]

In Western N.C., I have paid from 10 cent to 30 cent a BF. Fixin to pay $1.30 for some really nice walnut. I am buying mostly ugly wood tho, and am looking for figure, not graded lumber. Don't know if this helps any.

[Okrafarmer]

From Ron:
Okra:

Do you think they don't separate the unusual stuff out?

I'm sure most commercial mills do separate it out, and put the unusual stuff either into pallet wood or pulp wood. The ones around here do, anyway. Most commercial mills are (rightly) looking for consistent, safe, quality logs that meet their standardized needs. Some of us are not. Some of us find our best lumber in logs that would be rejected or marked down to pallet grade by big mills.

As for your guys in New Jersey, there's no telling what they do without your intervention! Moving up to the stationary metal detector from the hand held will be a big step forward for them. Then they will likely discard all logs that have metal in them (unless it can be quickly identified and removed). When they get into full swing they should probably have a semi coming at least once a month to remove pulp wood. 

[WDH]

I also procured wood for a large pulpmill.  Metal in pulpwood was also a problem.  Don't send logs with metal to the pulpmill either.  Metal in the diaper pulp that we made was a huge NO-NO.

[Okrafarmer]

I also procured wood for a large pulpmill.  Metal in pulpwood was also a problem.  Don't send logs with metal to the pulpmill either.  Metal in the diaper pulp that we made was a huge NO-NO.

We generally remove any known metal. But we figure their metal detector will catch it, or they would have magnets post-grind if it's important. Most of our pulpwood is from tree tops, since the lower parts are sawmilled.

I will do a better job of keeping known or suspected metal out of the pulp wood loads. The two procurers we go to have never once said anything about it. They complain if the logs are too short or too big in diameter, but have never said anything about metal.

[WDH]

I guess it depends on what you are making as to your sensitivity to metal in the product.  For furniture lumber, that is a disaster waiting to happen.  If you are making diapers, Mothers do not like metal on their babies bottom.  The Japanese really freak out about this as they buy a lot of diaper pulp. 

If a supplier knowingly hauled us wood with metal and we found out, that supplier immediately got the opportunity to haul to another mill.  Immediately. 

[Okrafarmer]

Wood chips for biomass- I would think metal would not be a real big deal, as long as it didn't tear up the chipper / grinder. I do not know how the inner workings of a paper mill go, so I don't know what methods they use to protect themselves from metal. It seems to me that getting occasional metal would be fairly routine for them, since even out in the forest, people still sometimes put nails in trees. Deer stands, kids "secret" tree houses, fences, no-trespassing signs, etc. My dad was furious with me when he found out I pounded my initials into one of his hemlock trees with 16 penny nails when I was about 7 years old.  I think I used about fifteen nails per letter! He told me to pull them out. I got out quite a few, but I know I didn't get them all out, and I think he forgot to check back . . . .

Anyway, I will be more vigilant about it in the future. I am sure our buyers would not "like" to have metally logs brought to them, but I'm just saying they have never complained or mentioned it in passing. The sawmills, yes. The pulp buyers, no.

[hackberry jake]

I just took on a partial metal saw job. The high production circle mill set aside all their logs with "suspected metal". He asked me if I would saw them into 5/4 lumber and 7x9 ties. I took him up on the offer but told him I would saw a 16" trailer load before I accepted and started getting more loads. I hit metal twice. Once I was pretty sure there was metal in the cut, but I had to make the cut to keep the heart fairly centered in the tie. A $22 tie will easily pay for a $15 band. The other time it was a surprise. Both times I was able to resharpen the band and keep using it. Most of the logs had metal, but as okra has said, I was able to cut around it. These logs had no value to him so anything he made off of them were profit. We each made roughly $300 a piece off of 6 metal logs. I'll be going back to get another load when I finally get to start working 8hr shifts again at work. These 12hrs are wearing me out. Metal logs aren't worth much to high $ operations, but us small scale bandmillers don't have that much to lose, especially if there is something to gain.

[T Welsh]

You guys are giving us Tree Service owners a bad rap. Yes everything that has been said is true to some extent! It depends who you are dealing with and what you are dealing with! I cull out every tree or log that is suspect of containing metal and paint it. My reputation at the mills are on the line and I do not want to jeopardize that. I sell logs to woodworkers and hobbyist,I live in the same state and geographical area is important! Lower grade logs are in the 0.25 to 0.35 cent range and higher quality logs are double. I gave a customer a Walnut log with metal in it a week or so ago,he wanted it and was willing to take the chance of hitting it and was willing to pay for it,I just said you can have it! We get some beautiful logs from time to time and the fair price is the going price at the mill. So check a couple of the local mills in your area and then subtract the loading and trucking and you have your fair price!. Tim

[isawlogs]

 I'll throw in my two cents in here too, any, no mater how much metal should be kept out of any production no matter where this production is. It is costly and time consuming to deal with, to take for granted that someone down the road will find metal that is or could possibly be in a log is something I cannot do. Known metal bearing wood should either be left to rot, or cut up for your own use and you deal with it.. I let it rot as I really ... reallly do not want or care to have any of my tools to come near metal ever.... !

[Okrafarmer]

A wide range of opinions!

I actually get a sense of satisfaction any time I "steal" good wood from a log with nails, and miss the nails. Or pull the nails out and mill good lumber.  To each his or her own.

[red oaks lumber]

okra
please explain your operation to me in some detail. starting with when you commenced your business.i think i'm confused

[Okrafarmer]

I am an independent contractor who works primarily for one contractor, who has several different enterprises. I help out with several of those enterprises. A tree service, sawmill, grading outfit, and farm.

A little over two years ago, he bought a sawmill and we started milling lumber to sell, mainly from the tree service logs he collected. Meanwhile, we continued to sell logs we didn't need or want, to local sawmills and log yards. I began selling lumber locally, mainly to hobbyists.

Over time, and as I have gained experience sawying, the lumber production and sales portion of business has grown. This September, we purchased a Woodmizer LT-40HD and have been using it since.

Our plan is to separate the sawmill and lumber business into a totally separate corporation entity and have me work it full time. I am planning to finalize a property lease agreement to begin in January. At that time, our advertizing will also go into full swing.

Right now we are not purchasing many logs, but if and as business picks up, we will need more logs than my current boss is able to provide through his tree service, so we will start buying them.

One of my friends is planning to invest in the corporation along with me and my current boss. His added capitol will help to get us on our feet, so to speak, and he will also be helping out significantly with sales. He owns a business that already deals with high-end home builders, so we are looking to sell specialty wood products to the high-end builders as well as continue with hobbyists, and pursue other markets as well.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

And there you have it.

Way to go Okra!

[red oaks lumber]

you dont have your own operation you just work for someone else?dont get me wrong i find it interesting, just trying to figure out you're roll in it all.

[Okrafarmer]

I do not have my own operation. That is correct. I am the sawyer. When we transition to the corporation, I will be a part owner.