Don't Think This Is Right

[SLOBuds]

Hi.

We planted about 80 trees this year.  Just for aesthetic purposes.  There are several species, and all of them are of varying sizes.  All bare root.

Some of them were no more than 12" high above the roots.  Some were 6' tall.

We have gophers and deer.  Each of the bare roots were planted in a gopher basket (chickenwire) and in a plastic tube that is about 5' tall.

I thought that the plastic tube was for protection from deer who might like tender 1st-year growth.  But on 2nd thought I can see that many of the trees are already taller than the plastic tube.  With new growth showing above the top of the tube as well.

Are we doing something unnecessary by putting those larger trees inside the tubes?

How long are the new trees supposed to stay in those tubes, anyway?

Thanks,
Martin

[Tillaway]

Are those plastic tubes really vexar tubes?  Vexar is a net like mesh that breaks down exentually, usually they are not removed.

I have seen deer that will browse the trees back to the tubes or even in an extreme case where wire large baskets were used all the way back to the wire which made the threes look more like a well pruned bush in the shape of the basket.  The best control I have seen is to protect some trees, namely the ones you really want with vexar and leave the rest open.  This can encourage the deer or elk in our case to leave the protected ones alone since there are plenty of easy ones to nibble on.

We are using a variety of different methods to control elk damage out here.  We have had tried vexar, bud caps, and special hunts to help control the damage caused by elk.  None have been real efective by themselves but a combination of these can be some what effective.

[SLOBuds]

No, they are called 'Miracle Tubes' and they are solid round tubes.  With a few ventilation holes.

Like these:

http://www.treequest.com/default.asp?MENU=P&ID=5

I think I am lucky that we do not have the amount or extent of foraging that other people report.  At least not that I have observed thus far.

Gophers on the other hand ... we have more than I have EVER seen anywhere else.  It is so bad on our farm that we actually need to be careful or might twist our ankles on their holes which network through much of the property.

Thanks
Martin

[Tillaway]

Never used those... at $3.95 a pop I can see why.  That would cost us about $1400 an acre just for tubes, not counting installation.

Have you tried gopher baiting?  They can be a real problem in some areas around here.  I don't know how well it works.  There is some sort of an propane injector you can get that allows you to inject propane into the gopher burrows and then sparks it off.  The result looks like it could be a bit dangerous but the manufacturer say's it real effective though. ;D

[Jeff]

Till, are you sure you didn't just watch Caddy Shack? ;)

[Tom]

I like Old Man Leman's deer remedy when I was complaining about deer in my garden.  He told me,  "Hang a new hide on the fence everymorning and they'll stop that, son".

[SLOBuds]

I don't know who these tubes are intended for.  At first I want to say they are intended for small operations.  Or possibly operations involving 'troubled' environments where large mortality rates exist.

But after reading several pieces of literature it also seems geared toward larger operations that are looking for higher survival rates.

One of the studies (vendor-sponsored):

http://www.treessentials.com/success.htm

And (wow) a good summary review of literature:

http://www.hort.agri.umn.edu/h5015/97papers/johnson.html

Some of the research indicates that the success of tubes are site- and species-specific.

My guess after looking at all of this is that large-scale planting operations mostly rely on over-propagation to yield the desired result.  eg, 'plant more closely to get the net yield you want.'  Going the route of these tubes is not cost effective even considering the higher yield.

For me, the guy who digs each and every hole for each and every tree, and who puts every tree into its own individual gopher basket ... the tree tubes are fine.  I wouldn't mind a 100% survival rate.

Thanks,
Martin

[Duane_Moore]

Tillaway.  I brought up the propane thing on another tread once. we used it to control prarie dogs. It workes. we used a 1" metal pipe on the end of propane hose about 3' long, stuck it in the hole gave it a good blast of fuel then thru dirt on hole as removed the pipe, this kept the propane in the hole. normaly the gas will kill them, as said earlier have set the propane off. but would not suggest in shallow gopher holes, spraying dirt everwhere, then the cops come, hum. Idea, call Jeff for bail money? Please visit at Marysville,Ca, jail, Duh---Duane. :D  just idea

[Texas Ranger]

I think I addressed the propane thing on that other thread as well.  But, it works, I used a hand held propane torch with a built in Prizzi lighter, ran the gas in the hole, touched it off.

Low grade WHOOMP, the dirt jumped, and the critter was gone.  So far this year not the first gopher tunnel has appeared.  But me, the torch, and a siz pack will be available when they do.  Easy way to spend a Saturday morning.

[Lenny_M]

 Yes the propane works,I`ve used just the scent thats added to the gas with good results.But the cannon is much more effective, Fill in all the holes except 1,1 cup black podwer,1minnute fuse,light and push into hole as far as you can cover with large rock and get back ;D.Woodchuck problem solved ;D
                                    Lenny

[CHARLIE]

Viola is a little town just east of Rochester. Every year they have the Gopher Count Days which is the 2nd oldest ongoing festival in the U.S.  How small is the town?  Glad you asked. It's so small that the parade goes around the block twice....and that's the truth!  Anyway, the purpose of the festival is to pay for gopher feet brought in.  The last few years PETA has demonstrated because poor little gophers are being killed.

I have a solution and a way to get rid of gophers. Just notify PETA that they have 2 weeks to save the gophers or the gophers are going to meet an untimely death. Tell them they can keep all they save and must take them back to N.Y.

[rebocardo]

I know this is sort of off topic, but, I think the best protection for something planted close to your house is a dog. Besides the scent thing from marking the land, deers just do not like things with teeth coming after them.

Even roped off, a dog will greatly discourage most wild animals from even coming close. Especially if you walk the dog for his bathroom breaks around the edge of the property.

imo

[ID4ster]

The purpose of a tree protection tube is to protect the terminal leader until it gets above the browse height of the local deer and/or elk population. Probably the best thing to do is to position the tube on the support post so that it is protecting the leader from being browsed. I have heard of one landowner that used 5' tubes and he put several moth balls down into them which he claimed kept the deer away. In his case the tube was setting on the ground and the smell of the moth balls was in and up out of the tube. He also said that it worked on keeping mice away from the base of the tree. He also covered the tubes where trees weren't coming out of the tubes in order to keep bees or wasps from nesting in the tubes. If you have a severe deer problem then you should apply as much BGR as possible in order to keep the problem in check.