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"Clearcutting in Pennsylvania"

Started by chain, December 16, 2012, 05:24:43 PM

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chain

From College of Forest Resources, Penn State U., printed 1975.

I've forgotten where I found the above booklet and I know some of you eastern foresters are well adept to the pro & cons of clearcutting.

This booklet, a study of effects of clearcutting to  soil & water & wildlife, etc.; also examines and recommends practices related to  the  clearcutting method.

We did some clearcuts nearly 25 years ago and I can say I'm very happy with the results of having a healthy, young, and fast growing forest of mixed oak and SL pine. Hindsight is 20/20 they say, wlsh we had done more.

The question is, in regard to todays clearcutting recs, with larger and heavier commercial equipment and added environmental guidelines. What do you see as the most major changes in clearcutting methods from a quarter century ago?


Ron Scott

The size of clearcuts has been reduced and their boundarys are frilled to blend in with the landscape to appear as natural events.
~Ron

WDH

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chain

And also, as we have lots of Mark Twain Nat'l Forests  around us, they seem to have stopped CC along the hiways and county roads. Use to look terrible, a squared off 40 a or so...slashed.

But today, there are more prescribed burns for management of forests, at least by our State Forest people.

WDH

Clearcutting can actually be beneficial as many species benefit from disturbance and variety in the landscape as long as the clearcuts are not huge.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Ron Scott

Clearcutting is done when it is the "optimum" management direction to meet your land management objectives. Small clearcuts are often made to benefit wildlife game and nongame
species with the exception of the endangered Kirtlands Warbler which requires clearcutting 370 acre blocks of Michigan's jack pine for critical nesting habitat.

Clearcuts normally do not exceed 40 acres on National Forest system lands as regulated by the National Forest Management Act of 1976 (NFMA).  The Act was a result of the clearcutting controversy on the Monongahela National Forest in West Virginia during the late 1960's and early 1970's.
~Ron

WindyAcres

Clearcutting.. As far as I know, it is not even defined here in Nova Scotia. I have seen a 300 ha clear-cut yesterday (they get rid of the mature hardwoods and plant spruce!) and that is certainly small for Canadian standards. But clear-cutting is the way its done here. The reason for it quite often is greed I think. Instead of picking at it forever at a steady pace, take it at all at once and dont care for future generations...
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chain

Quote from: Ron Scott on December 16, 2012, 11:41:05 PM
Clearcutting is done when it is the "optimum" management direction to meet your land management objectives. Small clearcuts are often made to benefit wildlife game and nongame
species with the exception of the endangered Kirtlands Warbler which requires clearcutting 370 acre blocks of Michigan's jack pine for critical nesting habitat.

Clearcuts normally do not exceed 40 acres on National Forest system lands as regulated by the National Forest Management Act of 1976 (NFMA).  The Act was a result of the clearcutting controversy on the Monongahela National Forest in West Virginia during the late 1960's and early 1970's.

Always wondered about the Kirkland's warbler..just how the species evolved..the bird had to have the habitat somewhere tens of thousands of years past. No clearcutting then, so how did they ever get this far?

Ianab

Fires possibly?

When a area of forest gets old the high fuel load creates a hot fire, destroys a considerable area, and effectively "clear cuts" it.

It regenerates, the warblers live in the area for the 50 years or so it takes to recover. By then another fire has burnt nearby, they move on.

Same for species of trees that aren't shade tolerant as seedlings. They need open areas to regenerate. If you keep doing selective mixed age cutting you tend to change the make up of the forest over time, to species that can regrow in shaded areas. This may be good, or bad, depending on what species you actually want.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Ron Wenrich

I remember a guy telling me he had "proof" that there is no such thing as forest succession.  He was in a wilderness area in PA, and he came across 2 trees growing side by side.  One was a hemlock, which is a climax species, and the other was a white pine, which requires more sunlight.  He said that proved the fallacy of the science of succession, since these trees shouldn't be in the forest together.

My response was, think of 2 trees in the understory, one being a hemlock and the other a white pine.  The overstory tree dies and releases the understory trees.  My point here is that trees in different successions are present throughout the forest.  It doesn't take large openings to keep them in the stand.  It depends on how dominant you want the species in stand composition. 

That same area of PA had vast stands of virgin hemlock forests.  They were finally cleared in the early 1900s.  The next succession saw lots of cherry coming back, not hemlock.  A lot of that is due to the faster growth rates in the juvenile stages of the lesser tolerant species. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

chain

No doubt, forest management is very complex, but we use clearcutting as a tool of management, as well as prescribed burning is suggested. Our late forester always stressed management for the native species. His big thing was Short-leaf pine on poorer, drier sites.  A case in point: Our neighbor had a heavy cut removing most all oak, there were a few remnant trees of SL pine left standing. A wild fire came through a few years later killing every plant, but enabling a natural, almost pure stand of SL pine seedlings to spring forth.

We have enough pine to support the pine warbler and also have black & white warblers;  one of our wildlife managers wants us to burn our glades for other species. I just don't have the courage to burn, possibly mother nature will take care of that one day. :embarassed:

WDH

A lot of the high quality cherry came from regeneration (seeds spread by birds) that resulted from clearcuts over 100 years ago.  Is that good or bad?  Depends on your frame of reference.
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Ron Scott

The Kirtland's Warbler is known as the "Bird of Fire" and only nests in young jack pine up to 7 feet tall which was maintained years past by natural distubances and wild fire in the jack pine ecosystems of the Huron National Forest and State forest lands in northeastern Lower Michigan.

With Smokey Bear and the emphasis on fire prevention over the years, the Kirtland's Warbler critical habitat is now maintained by U.S. Forest Service and Michigan DNR land management by clearcutting large blocks of jack pine and then with prescribed burning of the jack pine slash to regenerate new blocks of jack pine for its nesting habitat.

The Kirtland's Warbler winters in the Bahama's and then only nests here each spring primarily on managed jack pine habitat on public lands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtland's_Warbler
~Ron

Jamie_C

Quote from: WindyAcres on December 21, 2012, 07:03:39 PM
Clearcutting.. As far as I know, it is not even defined here in Nova Scotia. I have seen a 300 ha clear-cut yesterday (they get rid of the mature hardwoods and plant spruce!) and that is certainly small for Canadian standards. But clear-cutting is the way its done here. The reason for it quite often is greed I think. Instead of picking at it forever at a steady pace, take it at all at once and dont care for future generations...

Clearcutting is most definitely defined here in Nova Scotia. A 300 hectare clear-cut ?? Where did you manage to find that ? A 300 hectare Clear Cut is actually massive, especially in this province.

Ianab

QuoteI remember a guy telling me he had "proof" that there is no such thing as forest succession.  He was in a wilderness area in PA, and he came across 2 trees growing side by side.  One was a hemlock, which is a climax species, and the other was a white pine, which requires more sunlight.  He said that proved the fallacy of the science of succession, since these trees shouldn't be in the forest together.

You can certainly see the forest succession taking place in local forests. Because of the climate real forest fire are rare, the native bush is generally too damp to burn. So you can get a stable climax forest that in this area is usually Rimu and Tawa.

But if you clear cut, those aren't the tress that regrow (for 100 years or so anyway). From open pasture you get a small tree called Manuka that's like a first coloniser. Wind blown seeds, resistant to grazing, will grow up through pasture etc. Left untended an open field will be totally taken over by manuka in a few years. This acts as a nurse species for 2nd growth trees like Rerarewa, Totara and Mahoe and assorted other smaller trees, which will grow in the relatively open shelter of the manuka. Give those 100 years and it starts to look like a forest and you get the conditions needed for the climax species to regenerate, and you see the rimu start to appear in the mix.

You do get random species thrown into the mature forest, although stands could get up to 99% dominant species, there are still river banks, steep hill, and natural clearing caused by weather events that let other "light loving" species get a foothold, and stay in the area to reseed.

The regenerating forest does appear a lot more diverse. More and different understory plants, and more varied food sources for birds and insects. The dense old growth forests is a pretty dark and foreboding sort of place, often with little obvious signs of wildlife.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

WindyAcres

Hello Jamie,

where is it defined (and since when?), thanks!

About 10 ha of my property has been clearcut about 15 years ago, it is now dominated by grey birch and pin cherry and I have no glue what to do with it..? Wish they had picked at it and I could do the same or just cut little pockets (30x30m) in there where yellow birch, hemlock,etc. can regenerate.

Merry Christmas to everybody
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SwampDonkey

A lot of states and provinces have a "green up" phase between cuts and adjacency rules. This is mainly defined as having been fully stocked by natural or planted trees and often times a minimum of 80% of the cut. Also tree height may be part of it. This also is why we have a lot of fill plantations. Once minimum stocking is accomplished an adjacent block can be harvested, but might be 10 years apart.  Most clearcut boundaries are defined by area, watercourses and cover type of the harvest block. You can see it when your a thinner after the block grows back. Out on crown where I thin, if it was mature red spruce that was cut it will be red spruce I have to thin. If it was a hardwood site, I will be spacing hardwood and birch. Only along the perimeter will it usually morph into something else or a mix because a stand boundary is not as cut and dry as a line on a map. I think what looks like a 300 ha cut in one harvest are several harvest blocks over the years. I know one place that is a 3000 acre cutover on private land, but it took place over several years. It's all young hardwoods and will never be thinned because the mill is a softwood mill and they only thin spruce ground.

Windy Acres it is defined in the Crown Lands and Forest Act here in NB. Policies change though. McKenna wanted a 100 foot buffer left along the roads, now they are going back and cutting those buffers. The only purpose of those buffers was the view.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WindyAcres

Hey SwampDonkey, thanks.  ;)  I think I know what you mean. It looked huge to me but they might count a stream where they left some trees as a boundary e.g. and if you leave 10 years in between the next cut.. the forest is gone but not according to the law.

2011 Woodmizer Lt40 Hyd G28, Stihl Chainsaws, Tractor with Farmi Winch, Woodturning Lathe,....

SwampDonkey

The forest is still there, someone just hit the reset button on a portion of it. So that portion is young now instead of mature ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WindyAcres

Hello,

Reset button   :laugh: Well, there was mature hardwoods, mixed forest before (100 years+) that is being replaced by a spruce monoculture. It would take several hundreds years for it to come back, so the reset button is pretty serious. I will start a new post here with my situation (the clearcut that is growing up in grey birch, willow,etc.), maybe somebody can help me.

In Germany a clearcut is defined usually by one tree length (35 m). Anything bigger is a clearcut and you need to apply for permission. There are many reasons for it, but one is that after 35 m, you lose the protection from the forest so that species like beech,etc. cant come up anymore (frost,etc.). There are also laws that if you have a neighbour you need to leave a big buffer otherwise you can be blamed for the damage that is being caused by your bad forestry (the wind can get in there e.g.). A lot of it is common sense to me, but... I think Nova Scotia/New Brunswick that have a very similar vegetation (mixed forest) as Germany could learn a whole lot from Germany because we have been doing silviculture for a long time and made a lot of mistakes. We started to get away from monocultures about 30 years ago.. We now have founding available for trees like oak, beech,etc.
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SwampDonkey

Beech here in the Maritimes is a junk tree. It never used to be, but we have beech scale disease, so unless you want a forest of diseased trees for the bears and squirrels to climb you had better manage for maple. And if you do that you have to open it up a lot more so the maple will grow. Here is an example of beech taking over on firewood lots, where a little is cut at a time over several years. Too much over story, beech regenerates, maple stagnates and dies out. In Germany I'm told to trouble is with ironwood, but they have a market for it, we don't. It's not much of a tree, more like a shrub. This will take over a sugar bush here with a thick under growth of ironwood. Again good for the animals for the mast (nuts), but mot much for logs.

Below, a picture of beech that took over a maple forest. The mature maple are standing over the top, but the next forest will be beech, and diseased beech at that, very unhealthy. This was owned by relatives and all they did was promote beech with their cutting practices. It occurred on two different lots. I've seen it on many others. You cannot apply a blanket silvics from Europe to NB or NS I'm afraid.

It will not take several hundred years for hardwood to come back. Just as soon as they stop tending those plantations, the hardwood will take over. And sometimes the hardwood takes over before the spruce gets thinned out. You need to walk about 100 meters or more off the roads. The road side is a dead zone from the machinery when harvested. Walk back in those plantations and see what is all growing up in that spruce. About the only monoculture is in the dead zone near the road. I've thinned for years and I've not seen this monoculture yet. Just because trees where planted doesn't mean the natural ones all died. Even if it was sprayed, still impossible. It would have to be very rare (monoculture), because I haven't found one yet. Also what occurs here is stand composition changes from hardwood to softwood, simply be releasing the natural spruce and fir under the hardwood by cutting. Thin the spruce and it looks like a spruce plantation. Also hardwood composition can change from 90 % maple to 90 % yellow birch when clear cut, still a tolerant hardwood and just as valuable.




The birch is beside the road. Now that you have all the beech, what are you going to do with it once it's mostly infected by nectaria (beech bark disease)?


"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WindyAcres

SwampyD, thanks for your answer.

Hehe, I have some of those beech trees that are good for squirrels and bears to climb. Beside that, it burns all night long in my wood stove. I took one beech down that yield some nice lumber. But I would agree, you dont want too much beech in there. You leave some for variety (wildlife,etc.).

I have some ironwood in my woodlot (fairly tall actually, some of them are maybe 7 inches at the butt). I would say similar to beech: good firewood, good for variety but you dont want too much of it (I have also made a bow out of it and I think its good wood for that).
I dont think that we have ironwood in Germany. The only tree that I can think of is the Hainbuche, Carpinus betulus (buche means beech). It looks a little like beech but is not related. Its a second story tree like ironwood. Its usually firewood . There is the odd niche market (knife handle, butcher block,..).. It is pretty white, but very hard. I heard its being used to replace ivory sometimes, not sure...

So how much would you say do you have to open up to get ideal conditions for sugar maple?

I will create a new post right now about my clear-cut situation, maybe you have some ideas?
Thanks
2011 Woodmizer Lt40 Hyd G28, Stihl Chainsaws, Tractor with Farmi Winch, Woodturning Lathe,....

SwampDonkey

I've seen several lots where the beech was so bad, it was best left to make soil. Too punky and rotten and surprisingly a live limb or two still going.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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