Texas Cypress Logs

MMann · December 05, 2012, 08:50:24 PM

New to the forum and to milling. I have searched and searched for a Texas supplier of cypress saw logs to no avail. Are there any fellow Texians or neighbors here that can guide me in the right direction? I had a couple leads from some East Tx mills, but they didn't pan out. That concludes the question, now on to the boring stuff! I just purchased my mill with the intent of milling all of the wood I'll need to build my house. I work in Bastrop, in the heart of where the 2011 wildfires were, and have access to all the pines I'll need.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Matt

beenthere · December 05, 2012, 09:12:40 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum

Is the need for cypress for the new house?

If so, what parts of the new house, and why cypress? Just curious.

Texas Ranger · December 05, 2012, 09:29:39 PM

welcome to a fellow Texan. You missed the glut of montezuma cypress a few years back. But, unfortunetly, you will compete with well established mills with all the contacts for cypress. Might save your self heart burn by buing what you need.

MMann · December 05, 2012, 09:30:51 PM

beenthere, Yes, all new. I was hoping to use it for the girders and beams, and maybe siding. As far as reason, it's harder than pine, rot resistant and I'll have some exposed beams that span 20'. Originally I was going to just use pine. I am open to suggestions as well.

MMann · December 05, 2012, 09:33:00 PM

Texas Ranger, thanks for the advice. I may reconsider, and go with another species.

Magicman · December 05, 2012, 09:50:47 PM

First, Welcome to the Forestry Forum, MMann.

Are you also planning to use any of the fire killed SYP? The ones still standing are well past being usable.

LeeB · December 05, 2012, 09:54:43 PM

Louisiana is your closest bet for cypress. You can occasionally find a log or two from the Guadalupe, but not with any consistancy.

MMann · December 05, 2012, 10:09:24 PM

Thanks Lee.

MMann · December 06, 2012, 05:37:17 AM

Quote from: Magicman on December 05, 2012, 09:50:47 PM
First, Welcome to the Forestry Forum, MMann.

Are you also planning to use any of the fire killed SYP? The ones still standing are well past being usable.

Thank you Magicman. Pardon my ignorance, but what makes them unusable? I know the smaller ones are dropping like flies, but I figured the larger ones would still have some meat after the fat was trimmed. Do you disagree?

tcsmpsi · December 06, 2012, 06:22:51 AM

If there is any stable wood left in them, it will be very minimal at a particularly rich core. Even that wouldn't be generally considered structurally acceptable. I do imagine there are yet, and will likely be, dying pines for a while.

Welcome to the forum!

I know I haven't heard of any available cypress logs. I would likely try to procure them myself, though. ;D

Meadows Miller · December 06, 2012, 07:12:48 AM

Gday

and welcome to The Forum Matt ;D You made a top choice with your mill in the EZ it will serve you well Mate ;) ;D 8)

With Pine I think you have a sound plan for using the fire killed and scorched timber pine starts to degrade from the top down and with time it gets to the stage where it is not suitable for use as timber here in Australia we have a rough rule that you can salvage a pine upto 3 years after a fire you just waste more of the tree as time goes on ;) so my advice would be drop em n see what you have when it hits the ground mate and where you are in Bastrop you will have plenty to pick n chose from ;)

And keep us posted on the milling and plenty of pics of the home your building Mate ;) ;D 8)

Regards Chris

Magicman · December 06, 2012, 07:55:04 AM

If memory serves me correctly those fires were in the Summer of 2011. Decay starts from the top, but termites start from the bottom. Also for those with bark, the bark is holding moisture, and the bark is also providing a path for those termites to travel.

When those trees are felled, I imagine that most will break when they hit the ground proving that they are not structurally sound. They needed to be salvaged within 6 months of the fires.

Another person (Texan) tried to salvage some of those trees and had pictures of the logs posted here about 6 months ago. They were all rotten.

I am truly sorry for my message.

Meadows Miller · December 06, 2012, 08:43:18 AM

I wouldnt touch stuff from areas that have been through a Very Hot Burn and cooked as it dose affect the cell structure of timber alot more than stuff thats been lightly burnt or scorched as I have noticed it behaves alot better and also lasts longer in a standing dead tree if its the latter ;) Im also taking a punt that your heat in inland East Texas is reasonably dry similar to here or do you get alot of humidity during summer ???

another thing with dealing with burnt stuff if you go that way is get a good pressure washer it will increase your run with a blade by 4 to 6 fold easily ;)

I think anything that is dead standing is a suck it and see type of deal

last pine tree i did was 3'dia standing dead for 5 to 6 years I got some bloody nice timber and good recovery out of that one with minimal rot but it was slow grown with tight grain bout 80 or 90 years old

Termites here will rarely touch pine and will only do it when they are starving or its an easy feed and if they have hardwood they will have a crack at that first

;)

I don't think you have to be sorry for anything Lynn

as that is why we are all hear to discuss all things timber and you deal with alot of that sort of material yourself too Mate ;) ;D

Regards Chris

Cypressstump · December 06, 2012, 09:08:28 AM

I have found that cypress is harder to come by than before the conservation efforts were placed in force due to the mulching industry vast purchases of logged cypress. At least in my area down here. There are a few logging operations that get the occasional cypress logs. I have become a "logtruck chaser" much like the ambulance chasing lawyers in places... :D
I have made some contacts by getting the phone numbers off log trucks hauling cypress a couple times. But it's hard to buy from the loggers already under contract. There are a couple that will set aside the occasional cypress they take. Wetland logging is quickly becoming a thing of the past here in South Louisiana.
I have a local tree service guy that gets a few cypress, but that's getting far and few between these days.

MMann · December 06, 2012, 02:23:33 PM

MagicMan & Chris, thank you both for the info (good and bad). I knew time was against me, but now I'm worried! I feel I did plenty of research prior to purchasing my equipment, and felt I would barely make it. I have been under the impression that one has about a year to harvest a dead pine tree. With that line of thinking I figured they didn't die right away, and held on for 3+ months until the shock took its toll. The fires were Labor Day weekend of 2011, so it has been exactly 1 yr 3 mo since the fires. The trees I have access to were not burned, but were slightly blackened 4-6 ft up on maybe 10% of the base. That's minimal in my mind. Also, another factor in the year to harvest deadline was the drought we are having. I was told that the drier conditions would buy some time. Chris, you mentioned humidity. We are a few hours inland, but we still have a humid climate. We are not dry like northern Texas. Magicman, if by some stroke of luck I am able to get what I was expecting, is there anything inexpensive I can use to treat for possible or confirmed termite and pine beetle infestations? I use Demon WP for normal insect control around the house, and it is some awsomew stuff. Kills scorpions! Would something like that work? Thanks for the lesson on how they decay from the top down. That explains the falling branches. Call me paranoid, but since they are falling, I built a small cover to work under while I am cutting. It is large enough to move around under and I have a 180° escape route. It is also light enough and has wheels so I can easily move it around the tree. I still need to build a drying shed and a barn, so if the worst happens I'll just use the wood for that and try to find better trees. What signs should I look for that will indicate the wood is not ideal for structural use? Do I need to take a sample somewhere or is it visually obvious? I will drive up to 5 hours if there is anyone close by that can inspect the wood.

Cypressstump, thanks for the heads up. I'm now thinking that locating cypress should be the least of my concerns!

Overlength · December 06, 2012, 04:04:01 PM

You can buy T/L's 6", 8", 12", etc, green Cypress timbers from the cypress mills with logs, and resaw those with your mill into siding, etc, and come out a little better than buying lumber.

tcsmpsi · December 06, 2012, 06:58:15 PM

MMan, you might find some usable wood among those pines. Since that area is rather on the edge of the pine growth, there will some difference in them. I tried to keep all mine of any significance (logs, firewood) cut within two weeks of their given demise. For 3 to 4 months, that's all I did on my 'time off'.

You might be right, and might be right on the edge of, 'soon enough'. You won't really know until you start cutting. If it is not structurally sound, you will most likely know it.

Sawmill Man · December 06, 2012, 07:22:44 PM

Even if it is not structurally sound enough for framing, it could still make some nice siding and paneling. Some people like the buggy and blued look.

MMann · December 06, 2012, 07:42:39 PM

Quote from: Overlength on December 06, 2012, 04:04:01 PM
You can buy T/L's 6", 8", 12", etc, green Cypress timbers from the cypress mills with logs, and resaw those with your mill into siding, etc, and come out a little better than buying lumber.

Can you elaborate? T/L's?

Quote from: tcsmpsi on December 06, 2012, 06:58:15 PM
MMan, you might find some usable wood among those pines. Since that area is rather on the edge of the pine growth, there will some difference in them. I tried to keep all mine of any significance (logs, firewood) cut within two weeks of their given demise. For 3 to 4 months, that's all I did on my 'time off'.

You might be right, and might be right on the edge of, 'soon enough'. You won't really know until you start cutting. If it is not structurally sound, you will most likely know it.

That seems to be the concensus. I just need to get in there asap and find out. May upload some pics to see if any of you guys can see any issues.

Quote from: Sawmill Man on December 06, 2012, 07:22:44 PM
Even if it is not structurally sound enough for framing, it could still make some nice siding and paneling. Some people like the buggy and blued look.

Yes indeed. I plan on doing board and batten on the barn and any future out-buildings, so it wont be a total loss.

Magicman · December 06, 2012, 08:37:59 PM

Quote from: MMann on December 06, 2012, 02:23:33 PMCall me paranoid

No, not paranoid at all. Widow makers are appropriately named.

If the trees do not break when they hit the ground, then you may have a chance.

Notice this "too far gone" log above that I did not saw. Only the lower left quadrant is good. the other shows deterioration and the wood had shrunk away from the rings. Not a good sign. An orange tint on sections of the logs or lumber is a sign of deteriorated wood.

The termite dirt under the bark will wreck your blades, so wash or remove as much as possible before sawing.

Don't worry too much about the actual termites. I have sawed logs with termites running everywhere. You will have to slab away the termite damaged wood, and then sticker the lumber in an absolutely dry area. Removing the moisture will eliminate the termites. I would leave a 2' stump to get away from as many termites as possible.

Sawyer worm holes will be as large as a pencil and you will have to slab below them also.

MMann · December 06, 2012, 08:46:31 PM

Thanks for the pic Magicman! That'll give me an idea of what to look out for. Like I said, I'll probably post some pics with the hopes that veterans such as yourself can give me some sound advice. Any clue on how long your tree had been dead?

Magicman · December 06, 2012, 09:34:56 PM

Sorry but I do not. These were beetle killed Pines that the customer had felled and skidded. I opened one log up for him to show that it was no good. We then had to cull and not saw several.

WDH · December 06, 2012, 10:12:27 PM

Like MM said, once sawn and stickered, the bugs will not be able to survive in the drying lumber, and you will be OK. It is the damage that they do before the "lumber" part that is the problem.

Magicman · December 07, 2012, 07:24:06 AM

Actually you probably will find the best lumber in the logs where the bark has fallen off or is very loose. The bark holds moisture which leads to rot and the bark also provides the path for termites.

I would suggest felling a few trees to determine what you have and the quality of the logs. You can not get good lumber out of bad logs, and you can not build a home with bad lumber.

Here is a discussion about a related topic: LINK

Meadows Miller · December 07, 2012, 07:48:48 AM

As Danny and Lynn said get it sawn and sticked out and you should be fine alot of wood bugs ,termites n beetles need moisture to survive take that away and you have won the battle .

I do use Powder Borax Diluted in Warm Water and sprayed or brushed on will kill Termites and some other timber bugs as they cant stand it just make sure you fill any holes with it either way you apply it ;) you can also sprinkle it out on the gound under your house and it deters them if its in the soil ;) I like it its cheap does not harm the enviroment humans or animals and most of all its deadly effective ;) ;D also because its water based and basicly clear it drys off without leaving anything on the surface and the borax stays in the cell walls of the timber ;)

Regards Chris