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Band Blade life

Started by redbeard, December 04, 2012, 11:28:31 AM

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redbeard

 I just wanted to put some imput in on blade life hope to learn some more about the subject imput and questions desired. What I have learned about The life of a blade is determined on what extent you push them too. There are all types of blades out there, hardness of the tips Is what extends the life of how many times you can resharp. When I run a blade until its dull it is basicly rounding the edges, which means you have to grind more material off to get the edge back. Pretty soon you will have soft metal and blade life will be shortened. Good practice from reading alot from forum members is too run them till there just starting too get dull or even still sharp. Types of logs and knots play a huge roll in this, but we all want to get the most out of a band blade.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

drobertson

redbeard you got it right, I believe a good rule of thumb is to try for around 700bd/ft per blade. However, this can change when cutting ties or other large cants that add up the footage without going through allot of logs.
The main goal is in my opinion, to maximize footage without sacrificing quality.  this has to be a head sawyers call, if he is the owner of course, sometimes owners just want the blade in the log, not realizing the drop off in quality or abuse.  And there are names for these folks, 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

John Bartley

My limited experience is that I get better cuts, use less fuel and work less hard myself when I change bands sooner rather than later. I have a manual mill, . a 25hp (Kohler), 30", using .042, 1.25" bands with a 10' angle and I keep two sets on hand - .028" and .021". I can feel when a band is getting hard to push, and because I do my own sharpening and setting, and because changing a blade only takes a couple of minute, I err on the side of swapping too soon. I probably have as much as 10 sharpen and sets on each of the bands in this box of 10 bands, and I'm guessing I have another 5 or so to go before they're too thin in the gullet to use. I would guess that I swap out on average at about 400btft.

I run Hakansson flexible silicon bands. I have only ever used one Munks band, and while it cut very well and sharpened and set well, I found it dulled more quickly then the Hakanssons in the same wood.

John
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
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Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

taylorsmissbeehaven

This is a subject that I could stand to do a little more research on. As I asked earlier, I wonder about how much lube/water to run when cutting. A WM rep told me he really went heavy on it when cutting dense woods to help cool the blade. I assumed this was to extend bladelife. Does anyone have any input on this? I go back and forth on the use of water/lube. I'll use it as a trickle, a drip, or really pour it on. Thus far I can't tell a whole lot of difference.Brian
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

Magicman

A "not sharp" blade needs to be changed.  It may not be dull, but it is not giving you the maximum output that is available from a sharp blade.  It is also being stressed backwards which is contributing to metal fatigue and ultimately leads to blade breakage.

I fell into this not sharp category yesterday.   My thread ""Another First" was intended to address the cut list of only 2x6's, but I slid that bit in about only using one blade and got sidetracked.  Regrettably, my actions might encourage others to push a blade and that was not my intent.  I was sawing clean and knot free SYP which always produces good number regarding bf/blade life.  It got late, the blade was still sawing well, and I just did not want to stop for a blade change that late in the day.

Changing your blade every 4 hours is a good rule of thumb practice.  You stop for lunch anyway so just do it then and then you are almost assured of finishing the day without another blade change.  I still would see no reasoning for "having" to change every 4 hours, or why changing then would extend blade life, other than the fact that you were replacing a "not sharp blade.
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

OlJarhead

Curious:  Does it make any difference in the mill used?

Meaning, with an LT40 with longer/thicker/wider blade (I'm assuming all of those) have a longer life (4hrs vs say 2hrs) then an LT10 with a shorter/thinner/narrower blade?

In my limited experience I found I could often mill for about 3-4 hours when milling Ponderosa Pine even though WM suggested running only two.  I should add that at 3 or 4 hours (not specific because I really didn't time it) the blade seemed to be cutting ok but I just 'felt' it was time to change it out and always found I was right -- meaning it cut much nicer after the change out.

I've kinda treated it like a chainsaw in that I watch the sawdust for signs that it's no longer kicking out bigger chunks (the bandmill doesn't really 'chunk' the wood out like a chainsaw but it does appear to get finer as the blade dulls).

Anyway, I also watch for 'peelings' which is what I call it when the wood doesn't appear to be cutting as smoothly and there are fine hairs 'shredding' off the cant as I mill....I usually worry the blade is dull and change it out then -- which tends to be well over 2 hours of milling.
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I do not worry about board feet or the time when sawing.

I saw at a consistent speed in clear lumber and slow my speed accordingly in knotty wood.

As I walk along behind the head as it saws, I move my hand along the top of the cant / board.

If I start getting waves, either it's my speed or blade sharpness. Usually my blade is dulling.

Some re-sharp blades will only last a little while, while others last longer and a new blade even longer.

This is why I do not look at my watch or count BF. Listen to your lumber.  :) It can tell you things.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

redbeard

The local sharpening service I have been using for quite some time, he stresses on tip hardness. He told me to use a flat file on the back side of tip and if it takes metal off easily its soft and its not recomended to keep sharpening. But he says some of his customers still want to keep sharpening. Do you guys that sharpen your own, do you pay attention to tip hardness?. I usually only get 4-5 resharps out of a blade. So my blade life math comes to 10-12 hrs of cutting and blade cost +sharpening /setting comes to $60.00 and maybe 2500 bf total. So I guess what iam getting at is if I can get 3000 bf out of a blade for under 60.00 its worth it for my out of pocket exspence.   
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

moandrich

I have never had a conistant amount of cutting with a blade from day to day.  Sometimes I get 6-10 logs on a blade, some times 2 blades for 1 log.  My rule of thumb is, if the cut sounds, feels, looks or whatever change the blade.  Worked for me so far. 
woodmizer lt 40HD  2007
Kubota RTVX1100 2019
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pnyberg

Quote from: taylorsmissbeehaven on December 04, 2012, 12:25:12 PM
I wonder about how much lube/water to run when cutting.

I try not to use any more than necessary, but then I'll err on the 'more lube' side rather than risk ruining a customer's board. 

I find that the amount of lube needed varies tremendously by species.  I rarely use any on oak.  Hickory and ash need lots. 

I watch 3 things to gauge whether or not I'm using enough.

  • The blade tension gauge.  Is the tension holding, or falling off.
  • The blade.  Is it staying clean, or is residue building up.
  • The cut.  Am I getting any wave.

--Peter
No longer milling

Chuck White

Quote from: redbeard on December 04, 2012, 04:24:47 PM
The local sharpening service I have been using for quite some time, he stresses on tip hardness. He told me to use a flat file on the back side of tip and if it takes metal off easily its soft and its not recomended to keep sharpening. But he says some of his customers still want to keep sharpening. Do you guys that sharpen your own, do you pay attention to tip hardness? I usually only get 4-5 resharps out of a blade. So my blade life math comes to 10-12 hrs of cutting and blade cost +sharpening /setting comes to $60.00 and maybe 2500 bf total. So I guess what iam getting at is if I can get 3000 bf out of a blade for under 60.00 its worth it for my out of pocket exspence.

I cut mostly White Pine, Red Pine and Hemlock, and once in a while I'll get into a little bit of hardwood!

I pull my blades what some would call early, 600-800 board feet of mixed 1X & 2X lumber!

I don't pay any attention to the hardness of the blade tips!  I will resharpen my blades until the blade either cracks or breaks!

I usually get between 6 & 10 resharps per blade, once in a while I'll get as many as 12 or as little as 4!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

WindyAcres

Mixed 1+2" spruce, hemlock (no dirty or dry logs) I change the blade after about 800 bf.

I recently squared up some dry spruce beams and I changed the blade pretty quick. I dont like cutting dry spruce, it really slows me down + I use more soap+water.

A few days ago I milled some logs for someone.. they were quite dirty.. I changed the blade after 150 bf. I did not charge for it but I told him the next time I will.
2011 Woodmizer Lt40 Hyd G28, Stihl Chainsaws, Tractor with Farmi Winch, Woodturning Lathe,....

T Welsh

I let Woodmizer deal with it. I run a constant 75 count of blades. And when it loses tolerance and slows down in feed speed I change the blade. All blades have a life cycle,I believe it depends on the metallurgy of the blade. And how long you push a dull blade will speed its life cycle up! Good topic! Tim

customsawyer

One thing that I have not heard mentioned here that I pay attention to is the the way the sawdust comes out of the sawdust chute. I normally keep the sawdust chute up so as the blade dulls and the cut slows the sawdust will not go as far as it will with a sharp blade. If the blade is sharp it has a nice even flow coming out of the chute but as the blade dulls its landing area will be a little more spread out.
It don't matter how you try to say it but if you are cutting with a dull blade it is costing you money. 1. Is in increase wear on the blade. 2. A dull blade will make your cuts slower thus cost in production. 3. A dull blade will produce less accurate cuts thus the quality of your lumber will have to be sold at a reduced price.
I don't worry about how long I have cut with a blade. What I look at is the cost per BF for your blades.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
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losttheplot

Does any one have any feed back on band life for small mills.
I have 13hp and when cutting dry Douglas-fir I am getting 200bdft or less and that's cutting large timbers and 2x8's.

I put it down to the low power of the mill. The bark on Douglas-fir being several inches think and the wood being dry.

I don't seem to get as many re-sharps out of a band, and I guess that's down to the smaller wheels and the slower feed rate meaning more revolutions per bdft cut.

I cut some alder once and it was like cutting butter compared to a big dry Dougie.

I fantasize about getting 800bdft on a single blade :)

Cheers.
LTP
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

hamish

Quote from: losttheplot on December 04, 2012, 09:41:42 PM
Does any one have any feed back on band life for small mills.
I have 13hp and when cutting dry Douglas-fir I am getting 200bdft or less and that's cutting large timbers and 2x8's.

I put it down to the low power of the mill. The bark on Douglas-fir being several inches think and the wood being dry.

I don't seem to get as many re-sharps out of a band, and I guess that's down to the smaller wheels and the slower feed rate meaning more revolutions per bdft cut.

I cut some alder once and it was like cutting butter compared to a big dry Dougie.

I fantasize about getting 800bdft on a single blade :)

Cheers.
LTP

Colin aka LTP

Your short band life ismost likely due to the variables you mentioned, but namely the nature of douglas fir and the dryness of the logs youare milling.
Being costal the deep groved bark of the douglas is going to trap alot of abrasives, and the dry ness of the wood will enhance the abrasives the tree has endured over the years during its growing process. 
just like cuting a doug dulls chains on a saw faster than some if not most other species of standing timber.

Higher hp mills can push a dull band easily, but on a manual mill, its noticeable right away.  I have made it less than 5bf on some bands, but cant sawing on a douglas is like sawing a log dragged through the mud!
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Migal

 :) The owner of the company of the sawmill I use told me to watch the sawdust and It work's for me although I keep plenty of blade's for that bad day LOL can't blame that on the blade  8)
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Migal

Oh I get every inch they say I can :D
Stihl learning and picked up my Log Master LM2 Cat 34hp 02 21 12! 230MF+ the toys that go with it! MS361 MS271 Stihl PB500 Echo 48" LogRite 16ft Bass Tracker Pro' Abua Garcia 5600 bait caster, Wood working equipment' Lake Lot never enough time! oh don't forget the fridge with ale! Loving Wife Rebeca

taylorsmissbeehaven

Thanks for the info Peter. I have been toying with this for a while, no real reason just playing around with it. I like to push the blades as far as they will go(on my lumber) this usually results in resharp kicking a few of them out I am learning. And if I hit metal those are gone for sure...DanG hamicks    Brian
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

francismilker

Good topic here.  I'm learning a lot!
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

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ladylake

 I'm guilty of sharpening my 1-1/4 blades down to 1" wide if they don't break first. They don't cut as long as a new blade but not too bad.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

Custom sawyer has hit upon a good point,sawdust exiting the chute.I'am not sure if its sharp or set that has the most influence on its exit.I have a hunch set has alot to do with it,too much set and the dust sneeks by the band body and packs on the boards and spreads wild out the chute.[not sure on this] I would say put a new band on your mill and watch how the dust comes out the chute and try to get your sharpened bands to copy its action.A sharp band will have an evil hiss as it cuts, as it dulls the sound changes,but I have an electric and mayby those with an engine can't hear it.I usally cut in the morning about 3 hrs. when done I take that band off and set and sharpen it,same band I usally don't have to change the adjustments on the grinder. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

bandmiller2

I run 1 1/2" bands and get at least 12 sharpenings from each,have never had a band break.Their mode of failure is wondering,when they get down around 1 1/4" width they start to cut wavy.I'am as frugal as it gets[cheap] but by that time they have cut so much lumber I snap a salute and bury them in the dumpster.Probibly by that time I've ground through the hard tip,and into the softies,I' ll have to try that file on the tooth back trick.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ladylake

Quote from: bandmiller2 on December 05, 2012, 07:14:50 AM
Custom sawyer has hit upon a good point,sawdust exiting the chute.I'am not sure if its sharp or set that has the most influence on its exit.I have a hunch set has alot to do with it,too much set and the dust sneeks by the band body and packs on the boards and spreads wild out the chute.[not sure on this] I would say put a new band on your mill and watch how the dust comes out the chute and try to get your sharpened bands to copy its action.A sharp band will have an evil hiss as it cuts, as it dulls the sound changes,but I have an electric and mayby those with an engine can't hear it.I usally cut in the morning about 3 hrs. when done I take that band off and set and sharpen it,same band I usally don't have to change the adjustments on the grinder. Frank C.

Yes you can hear that nice hiss even with a diesel and muffs on, when it goes away time to change blades.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

pineywoods

I use a variation of custom sawyer's idea, watching the stream of sawdust. I have a sawdust blower on my mill so I can't see what comes out of the chute. But if you carefully watch the stream of dust where the blade exits the wood, there is a noticeable difference when the blade starts to get dull. I don't sharpen blades because they are dull, I sharpen them to keep them from getting dull..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

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