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The diesel upgrade

Started by Kingcha, December 03, 2012, 10:49:45 AM

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Kingcha

Though I cannot say that I have ruled out a few other mills such as the Norwood lumberlite or the one from Woodland mills but I am leaning towards the WM lt15. 

Today's Question is the 10hp diesel upgrade worth the money ($800).   My tractor is diesel and the thought of keeping both the same is one thought.   But as far as running a mill which would be better over all athe standard 18hp gas or the 10 hp diesel.      I know diesels are very reliable and provide good power.

I am still working on my budget for this project which in the end always has a say in things.

Thanks again
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

SPD748

I believe, for your purpose, I'd stick with the 18hp gas and spend the extra $$ on a couple boxes of blades. I've never been a fan of the small single cylinder diesels. Besides, you're looking at a 45% reduction in calculated hp which I don't believe the diesel will make up for in produced torque.

-lee
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Kingcha

a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

Nvfd3052

I kinda have the same question, I am gettin ready to order a lt35 hydro and am wondering if anybody has one with the 17 hp diesel upgrade and how they like it. I would like to have the diesel because everything I own is diesel, but if it ain't worth it I will stick with the 25 hp gas. Thanks
Woodmizer LT35HDD18 diesel
Stihl ms290
Deere 260 skid loader
01 Chevy 2500hd duramax
And a wife that loves me!

WoodenHead

I have the 18HP Lombardini/Kohler diesel upgrade.  It is a two cylinder, it is liquid cooled and it works like a charm.  It has more torque than the 18HP gas and probably rivals about a 25HP (or more) gas in terms of performance.  Fuel economy is excellent.  In 2011 this engine was available for the LT15, LT28 (which I have) and the LT35.  It is pricey, but I will recover most of that in fuel savings alone. 

jcbrotz

The diesel may have less horsepower but the torque is where the straight cuts come from. small gains mean alot. Would you own a gas tractor? You will get your money back in fuel alone, then you will again in longevity. If it were me I would go diesel But everthing I own is diesel, and it will stay that way. Except maybe my old chevys they will stay with the old 427's and 454's atleast till I run out of them.
2004 woodmizer lt40hd 33hp kubota, Cat 262B skidsteer and way to many tractors to list. www.Brotzmanswoodworks.com and www.Brotzmanscenturyfarm.com

valley

My mill is gas,but when it wears out I will be going diesel and if nothing else just the convenience alone of being able to fill it up out of the external tank on the truck this mill and my kids four wheeler is the only things around the place that we have to mess with gas cans for and the new safety top gas cans are really aggravating not to mention my mill gas seems to keep ending up in their four wheelers  :(
Have a great day unless you have other plans !!!

MTrim

I have the LT 15 with the 10 hp diesel.  Been running for about three years and have never regretted the diesel upgrade.  I can't compare to the gas engines, but the diesel has plenty of torque, and starts in all weather, no problem.  Fuel use is minimal.

Piston

I second what MTrim says.  I have the 10hp Diesel upgrade (and yes it is an UPGRADE ;D).  I've never had any issue with it and I love the torque of a diesel.  If I ever upgrade to a larger mill I will certainly want one with a diesel. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Solomon

Quote from: Kingcha on December 03, 2012, 10:49:45 AM
Though I cannot say that I have ruled out a few other mills such as the Norwood lumberlite or the one from Woodland mills but I am leaning towards the WM lt15. 

Today's Question is the 10hp diesel upgrade worth the money ($800).   My tractor is diesel and the thought of keeping both the same is one thought.   But as far as running a mill which would be better over all athe standard 18hp gas or the 10 hp diesel.      I know diesels are very reliable and provide good power.

I am still working on my budget for this project which in the end always has a say in things.

Thanks again
I think a diesel is the only way to go.   Just my 2 cents worth.
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

The Path to Salvation is narrow, and the path to damnnation is wide.

Jasperfield

Last week I went up to see Marty Parsons in PA specifically to look at the LT35HHD Diesel mill. He demonstrated on about a 15" - 16" oak and it was impressive. I'm going to purchase a mill soon, and it'll be diesel. They're a stout engine, they don't break, and you don't have to fiddle with them.

Aside from that, he's got everything in the world up there you can use in the woods.

barbender

My LT40 Super has the 40 horse Lombardini, and I really like it. On a production machine, diesel is the only way to fly. However, sometimes I miss my little homebrew mill that had a 13 hp Honda. It was nice to be able to go out, pull the rope and fire it up to trim a couple boards down 1/2", kind of like a big tablesaw. The big mill, I go out, cycle the glow plugs, fire it up, let it warm up for 5 minutes, to make a cut that takes 30 seconds. So, the gas engine can be more convenient. A little less finicky in cold weather too. On an LT15, I'd go with gas myself.
Too many irons in the fire

Kingcha

Thanks all for the input.     Sounds mixed, with the Diesel a slight favorite.  Just wanted to make sure 10hp will be big enough.  Not to worried about wait time.  I will be mainly sawing pine at least at first.
I am not planning on using the mill in the winter at this point.  Just April thru November but you never know.   
Hope to order and have shipped in April.....the wait is killing me.  :)
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

thecfarm

No I would not own a modern gas tractor,the wife is on the 30hp diesel tractor about 4-6 hours a day mowing.
My sawmill has a 20hp honda that probably only gets used maybe 2 hours steady,than sits for 2-3 days waiting for me to stop pounding nails and get back sawing. I doubt I would get a diesel motor for mine. But if I could get it for the same amount of money I might go with the diesel. I think the wife puts more hours on her tractor in a week than I do in a month on my mill. Just depends on how much a mill gets used.
But saying all of this,a diesel might take the waiting better than a gas motor. No carb to get all gummed up.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Kingcha

Quote from: thecfarm on December 03, 2012, 09:56:06 PM
But saying all of this,a diesel might take the waiting better than a gas motor. No carb to get all gummed up.

That is one of the reasons I am thinking of going that route.  My tractor sometimes goes for months without me using and I have never had problems.  That being said, when I get the mill I am sure the tractor will get more use.
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

Nvfd3052

I think I am going to go with the diesel. Now is the time to do it too, the EPA is gettin ready to change the rules for small diesels, and that just means cost goes up and power goes down...
Woodmizer LT35HDD18 diesel
Stihl ms290
Deere 260 skid loader
01 Chevy 2500hd duramax
And a wife that loves me!

beenthere

Quotethe wife is on the 30hp diesel tractor about 4-6 hours a day mowing

That's a lot, or did you change and edit some?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

JustinW_NZ

+1 for diesel

I havent seen the smaller diesels (only bigger or electric)  but im another lombardini / lt40 owner and the flatter torque is what your after so when u hit a knot it doesnt slow as fast and cause blade dive etc.
My mill was gas and was changed to diesel for that very reason - higher production with less problems.

cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

thecfarm

No edting here. She is mowing the old hay fields that have all run out. and some of the old pasture that I am claiming back. I'm not the best with acres,about 10?



 

This is an old picture. That was low bush blue berries she use to mow around. Than we brought back 7 acres of the old farm and on the middle right the trees are gone so we can see the lower end of the field across the road.We own all the way to the woods. This picture makes it look a lot bigger than it really is. Looks like about a ½ mile to the woods.  ;D I try to keep her back to 4 hours a day. I just feel the bearings in the mower deck last longer. She use to mow about 6-8 a day at one time. works much better on the bearings to spread it out. Lots of rocks to mow around and uneven ground to slow her down. She also mows up and down along side the road. Lots of stone walls to mow around. She wants it to look nice and it does. We have one small field that grows REAL good. That is really the first one you see when you come up the road,it's right below the house. She keeps right on top of that one.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

barbender

Thecfarm, that is really pretty property. My goodness, that is a lot of mowing though. You need a herd of sheep or something :D One wife and one mower is probably easier to keep taken care of, I suppose ;D Kingcha, it all depends what you want to do with the mill. If you are sawing a lot of wide stuff, and a decent amount of time each time you fire it up, a diesel could be beneficial. Even if you just like the sound and smell of a diesel, it could be beneficial ;) My experience with smaller two cylinder diesels has been negative, I HAVE NOT sawed with one, and these were small hatz and duetz air cooled diesels in asphalt paving equipment. Those engine were a bit sluggish, they had really poor throttle response. The little Lombardini WM is using could be completely different, I've never been around one. Dieslels are much more expensive to repair, as well.
Too many irons in the fire

Kingcha

What I want to do with the mill.   Well I have never used a mill, though I think I have at least 5 hours of Youtube viewing.   I am guessing the first 6 months I will be sawing as much as I can.  Long term, I would think when I do saw it might be once or twice a week 4 to 6 hours.   I have a number of projects already in my mind, but then I have 2 acres of pines just ready to cut.   I have not yet tried to figure out how many board feet that is yet.   

If I get the bug as many on here have, I will hope to earn some cash from the extra wood and be using the mill much more.   I will not be firing it up to just cut a few boards or even just one log.   When I am enjoying what I am doing I tend to be a workaholic.

Not sure I like the "a bit slugish"  Years ago I had a sailboat with a one cylinder yanmar and it was a very nice motor.    I will have to look up Torque vs horsepower.   I would think a sawmill needs torque.

I am not even considering fuel saving(if any) and the added cost of repairs is the cost of reliability I would think.
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

Kingcha

I was outback where I will be setting up my mill next spring.   I was looking over a few spots where I might set up.  I got 4 sites to chose from but really only 2 that I like.   Both are conveint to the pines I plan on starting on.

Some pic's of the 2 acre pine stand.   I will start with anything over  12'.   I have a couple of very nice white pines but most are red pines.


 


 


 
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

Piston

Quote from: barbender on December 03, 2012, 09:33:39 PM
...The big mill, I go out, cycle the glow plugs, fire it up, let it warm up for 5 minutes, to make a cut that takes 30 seconds. So, the gas engine can be more convenient. A little less finicky in cold weather too. On an LT15, I'd go with gas myself.

It's funny, I've never done any of that with my LT15 diesel.  No glow plugs, nothing.  It just sits most of the time, yet in the winter when I do most of my sawing, I go up there and fire it up, I've never had a problem.  I think due to the small size of the engine it really isn't that hard to turnover, and starts right up.  I've not once drained the battery from cranking. 

Mostly all I do is Eastern White Pine.  If you can fit it on the mill, the 10hp diesel will cut it happily.  You do have to slow down on the really wide logs, but that will happen with the gas engine too.


Here is a pic of a White Oak that I had to trim up a bit just to get it to fit.  The engine handled it just fine, it was me that had the problems! 


  https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=54855.0
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

barbender

I don't have any direct experience with the engine that is used on the LT15. I would say the best thing to do is go see one in person. Call WM and see if there is one in your area that the owner would demo for you.
Too many irons in the fire

dgdrls

I would say check the spec's of each motor very carefully. 
Is the gas motor a two cylinder? 
you may find the torque specs fairly even.
would be an easy choice if the diesel was more powerful
15 HP or more  the Torque gain would be there.

I think it's too much to give-up and you pay $800 to do it.



here is the Yanmar info I found
http://www.yanmar.com.au/products/industrial-engines/ln-series-47-10hp/l100n-10hp

B&S
http://www.scribd.com/doc/47347709/Briggs-And-Stratton-Vanguard-Torque-and-horspower-Curves-18-31hp

I threw in the Lombardini specs for camparison
http://www.powertechengines.com/Lombardini.html

DGDrls

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