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Sweetgum, arguably our most misunderstood tree?

Started by chain, November 28, 2012, 10:42:40 AM

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Okrafarmer

Just keep at it, Faron. Eventually the tree will be rare, and then it will be valuable.

By the way, SG makes excellent railroad ties. I've been told locally they are the preferred species, with white oak second.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Ocklawahaboy

I'm thinking that hollow one should have been sliced up for toilet seats.  That way those of you who don't like it could have gotten some poetic justice.  We've got a few around here but I haven't gotten ahold of one to mill yet.  I did see a beautiful piano bench out of black gum one time.  Nothing wrong with it.

Okrafarmer

Black gum is an entirely different tree. A very fine wood to work in most respects, great for carving, turning, etc. Very soft, and takes an exceptionally smooth finish with minimal effort.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Okrafarmer

I've found black gum to dry in a more stable fashion than sweetgum, but either one is ok if the logs are big enough to begin with. Seems like most every species of wood cuts and dries straighter if the logs are bigger to begin with.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Okrafarmer

Except red cedar, which behaves pretty good no matter what you do to it.  ;D
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

learner

 :D I just LOVE the way some of you HATE the poor SG.  This is a pic of a 1" x 20" 8' piece of dried SG.  You can see the MM reading in the pic.  It dried almost as flat as glass.  And by that I mean less just 1/16" movement.  Sadly my planer only goes to 16" width so it will have to be sanded smooth.  But it's gonna make some Nice tv dinner stand tops.  BTW, How is everyone doing?  Been really busy and working alone so I've absent quite a bit lately.  Sorry about that!  (yeah right! like I've really been missed!)  :D


 

I really need an I-pad or something so I can take bigger pictures.
WoodMizer LT40 Super Hydraulic, MF-300 FEL, Nissan Enduro 60 forklift, 2 Monkey Wards Power Kraft Radial arm saws, Rockwell series 22-200 planer, Prentiss 210 loader

WDH

That should work if you can stand your TV dinner stands a bit cattywhompus  :D. 

Just kidding.  Maybe yours will stay nice and flat after planing. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

Sweetgums don't get emerald ash borer, or Dutch elm disease, or chestnut blight, or oak wilt, or thousand cankers. Maybe we should be glad they are there. One more tree left if the rest die. :-\
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

WDH

If you want to see the "they are there" part, come on down here.  They are there here for sure  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

I have no problem with SG logs or lumber.  I saw it, get paid, and leave it.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

chain

Quote from: mesquite buckeye on March 31, 2014, 11:55:43 PM
Sweetgums don't get emerald ash borer, or Dutch elm disease, or chestnut blight, or oak wilt, or thousand cankers. Maybe we should be glad they are there. One more tree left if the rest die. :-\

That's the way I see it, Sweet gum seems to be one of the more resistant trees we have; they do show damage from fire from decades ago, but down in the hollows, even where White oak has been dying out, the SG thrives. Appears to me that SG and Hickory is the 'coming thing' in our woods.

The worst thing about SG insofar in regeneration is how they sprout so profusely from a cut stump :o

I till manage for the oaks yet, I've found thirty year BO & RO dying;  it was good, solid pole timber, sprouted from a regeneration cut .

Magicman

SG has a trait of infesting profusely, but when the stems reach about 6", growth slows down.  I can point out SG stands that are 40 years old with only 12"-14" DBH stems.  Had they been Red Oak, they would be twice the diameter.  That plus there would be no comparison regarding the timber value.

No landowner in my area would promote the growth of SG at the expense of Red Oak.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

chain

Yes, I've seen some of those sweet gum thickets in Mississippi...and little wonder they do not grow well, for I would suggest they need thinning every once in a while. Could also be the subsoil is impenetrable for one reason or another.

Sweet gum is listed as a rapid growing, long lived timber tree up to 130' tall , the wood used for flooring, furniture, veneers, cabinets [I have a home made cab from my own SG lumber], also musical instruments, and many, many other wood products. :P

GuyInHuntsville

Quote from: chain on April 02, 2014, 02:19:25 PM

The worst thing about SG insofar in regeneration is how they sprout so profusely from a cut stump :o


Is there a "best way" to stop this from happening...To kill a 5" diameter stump when it's located only a couple of feet from the shoreline of a stocked pond? I would think I shouldn't use herbicides near the pond? Is there a safe herbicide for this area? A beaver cut down several sweetgums around my pond a couple of years ago and they're resprouting just like you're saying.

Other than stumps like this I really like sweetgums. To me it's a really pretty tree especially in the fall and spring.

Thanks!!


curdog

I think garlon 3 is labeled for use around water or might be garlon 4. I used rodeo around catfish ponds on a hatchery I used to work on.

Red Clay Hound

Whenever I cut down a sweetgum tree I immediately spray the stump with a 43 percent glyphosate (Roundup) solution mixed 50/50 with water.  They rarely resprout.  Glyphosate is a very safe herbicide that can be used around ponds.
2007 Wood-Mizer LT40 Super Hydraulic with 51 hp. Cat; 2007 Wood-Mizer EG200 Twin Blade Edger; Woodmaster 718 Molder/Planer; Stihl MS460 and MS362 Chainsaws; 2011 John Deere 5065 with JD 553 Loader

GuyInHuntsville

Thanks curdog and Red Clay Hound! I'll get some...Gotta lot of thinning to do around the pond. Was considering Tordon RTU until I learned how toxic it was.

WDH

RoundUp and Garlon are not soil active.  Tordon is, and will persist in the soil doing its job.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

GuyInHuntsville

Quote from: WDH on April 23, 2014, 07:40:00 AM
RoundUp and Garlon are not soil active.  Tordon is, and will persist in the soil doing its job.


Thanks WDH!! Found out Garlon is expensive :o  Found it on Amazon.

mesquite buckeye

I used a lot of Tordon RTU when I was removing the giant grapes and poison ivy in my woods 20 years ago. We had some grapevines covering an acre of forest and killing trees, grape trunks to 8" thick, poison ivy vines to 4" thick. Yuk. Anyway, the vines died, but it seemed there was a noticeable drop in tree vigor in the whole of the treated area even though we only applied it to the cut surfaces. There is always a little spillage, though. We had some herbicide damage showing on trees where a little of the herbicide overran the application cut on attached vines. I only use it sparingly now, and try to just cut the vines back unless they are monsters. :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

GuyInHuntsville

Thanks mesquite buckeye...Everything I know about Tordon is from reading the online reviews for it and now from what you're saying. Some are saying it will kill the trees next to where it was applied. Maybe they were using too much. Others said don't use it if you have well water. But I did gather it definitely kills fresh cut stumps.

:) Reading through this thread made me wonder why there's so much hatin' on sweetgums :'( Even a friend of mine commented he has a few of these "worthless" sweetgums in his yard. I didn't bother to press him on why he feels that way. I guess they get a bad rap because of the balls they drop? Every rose has it's thorn  ???

WDH

A generic of Garlon is Element herbicide.  Same active ingredient. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

Quote from: GuyInHuntsville on April 23, 2014, 11:56:32 AM
Thanks mesquite buckeye...Everything I know about Tordon is from reading the online reviews for it and now from what you're saying. Some are saying it will kill the trees next to where it was applied. Maybe they were using too much. Others said don't use it if you have well water. But I did gather it definitely kills fresh cut stumps.

:) Reading through this thread made me wonder why there's so much hatin' on sweetgums :'( Even a friend of mine commented he has a few of these "worthless" sweetgums in his yard. I didn't bother to press him on why he feels that way. I guess they get a bad rap because of the balls they drop? Every rose has it's thorn  ???

Tordon can cause a lot of damage if you get sloppy with it. I had a volunteer at a nature park where I used to run the grounds dept. use it to kill some desert broom (native very weedy shrub) and he spilled it all over the place. Almost killed a tree we were trying to get the desert broom out of. I think the main thing is to try not to spill any more than you absolutely have to onto the ground.

Probably 30 years ago now they used Tordon for control of field bindweed at one of the University of Arizona's experiment stations. They may have had some residual for a year where the crops didn't do too well on the spot. Then fine. Maybe 5 or 10 years later they planted buffalo gourds as an experimental crop for the production of starch and oil. First year no problem. Second year the biggest ones started to die. Third year all dead. Turns out that the Tordon was still hanging around below 3-4 feet deep, below the depth of most crop roots. Unfortunately for buffalo gourds, their roots eventually go down 6 feet or more. Took a couple of years before they hit the poison zone. When they did, adios.

Also, Tordon is about as hot as your typical insecticide, LD50 of around 300mg/kg. You wouldn't want to drink it.

A good tool, not one to be used indiscriminately.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

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