Planing before drying?

[lowpolyjoe]

Hey All,

I just cut my first boards ever this past weekend with a chainsaw and beam machine.   I knew the board thickness would not be too consistent, so i cut them thicker than i needed.   I want boards of 3/4" and maybe 1".  I cut closer to 1 1/2" although some of them taper to as little as 1/2" due to the technique i'm using and lack of skill :(

I'll be buying a planer soon that i'll use to get the boards flat and down the desired thickness.  It will not be an industrial unit... just a homeowner's workshop type.  Maybe something like this:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200328051_200328051?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Woodworking-_-Planers%20%2B%20Jointers-_-399566&ci_sku=399566&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw={keyword}&gclid=CJWaps2O7bMCFYs7MgodTw0AGQ

Can i run the green boards through a planer like that to even them out and reduce the thickness to speed up drying?   I was wondering if the green wood was likely to do any damage to the planer - i've never used one before and i've never sawn lumber before.

I'm thinking that drying 3/4 and 1inch boards is going to be easier and faster than drying uneven boards ranging in thickness up to probably 1 3/4".  But i'd hate to drop a bunch of cash on a planer and then destroy it by accident  :-\

If anyone has planer recommendations <$500 i'd love to hear them as well - althought that may be for another thread.

Thanks a lot,
Joe

[beenthere]

Think how many passes you will have to take at a slow pace at about 1/32" or 1/16" at a time.

:

Then reconsider buying that planer and save your money. ;)

Uniform thickness should be possible on your mill.  What's the technique that won't give you more uniform lumber thickness that you said you are using?

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

I agree about multiple passes.  Also, you will need a strong indeed and out feed to support the lumber 100%.  I would expect the weight would bend some of the machine parts.  Also, wet shaving will cause severe rust, so you would need to clean it very well and ASAP.  Bottom line..not a good idea.

Maybe you can find a commercial planer with 30 HP motor or large and have them do it for you.  You are correct that it will be beneficial.

[lowpolyjoe]

Ugh.... not exactly the news i was hoping for  :'(

But I certainly appreciate the quick and honest replies.  I didn't even think about the possibility of rust.  I would go crazy if i was to destroy a brand new $500 planer right out of the gate.  I will have to rethink my options. 

Regarding the variance in board thickness.  I'm using this device:   http://www.beammachine.com/    on a makeshift outdoor table.  It's not a pretty setup  :D

The Beam Machine is a great value but precision is not it's strong point.  There is perhaps 1/8" - 1/4" of play on the sled that slides along the 2x4 setup as a guide.  That makes it very difficult to cut boards with uniform thickness better than maybe a quarter inch.  Also, my saw is underpowered and my bar is *just* barely long enough for some of the logs i'm cutting.  That means some pulling and pushing and forcing that leads to further imperfections that will need correction via a planer.

I had 3 large (by my standards) logs to process and i'm 1/2 way through the second one.  I may have to reconsider my approach.  I was trying to produce boards as wide as possible but that is making the cuts very difficult.  Maybe i'll just trim down to a more managable size and then try to make more careful cuts to produce smaller, more consistent boards.

That may limit their usefulness in what hobby projects i can use them for, but perhaps the tradeoff is worth it.

Thanks a lot,
Joe

[Slab Slicer]

Joe, it's shame I'm not a bit closer to you. I would offer to do the milling for you. I know that's not the idea, but a chance to help out would be great. I'm not familiar with your style mill, so I can't give advise. I've been looking into a better planer myself. I only have a small Dewalt, and have only used it for some projects around the house. Planed all the old poplar attic floor boards.  I maxed it out, and it was working hard, but it did the job Good luck, and let us know how you make out.

[SwampDonkey]

The idea of planing not only smooths the lumber but removes surface drying imperfections. Depending on how much it has to dry. I think dryer wood is easier on the knives. Unless you have a long infeed and outfeed that will secure the piece, your going to have rolling dips all along those boards on a consumer grade planer.

[kelLOGg]

I had a sawing mishap where I end up with a 1" WO board about 1.5" thick for the last 6" of the board. Not wanting to sticker this with the good lumber I decided to plane it true first. The board was green and the dust collector would not suck the chips out. (1966 Powermatic planer and an 1100 cfm dust collector) I never was sure it was due to the chips being green but i don't want to try it again.

Bob

[fuzzybear]

Joe, The beam machine is 3 5/8" inside to inside, so the 2x4 you are using is only 3.5", so it is off by 1/8".  That can become 1/2" by the time you get to the other end of the bar.You can take up the slack by tack welding 2 flat washers to the inside.
  After that it really is SLOW and steady work. In order to produce quality slabs you have to work really hard at slowing down and trying to hold the saw as steady as possible. The saw will do the cutting, you have to do the guiding. I was frustrated at the begining until I slowed down. Put on your favorite tunes in your MP3 and just take it easy and relax your grip.  You will be sore at the end of the day and not have the quantity that you want, but if you slow down what you will have will be of usable quality.
  I had many wedges at the begining and I saved some of them by cutting them down so the taper wasnt as great.  You almost want to cry when you have to cut an 18" board into 3 just to be able to salvage it.
FB

[woodmills1]

30 hp 


wow  my first tractor was 30.5

but then again I just sold 700 bd ft of air dried oak today to pay my property tax


planed some pine the other day, wouldnt register on the moisture meter,  as in...
it (the meter) stops at 6 per cent     did I mention air dried

[beenthere]

You must have had some extremely low relative humidity for that air drying to get the mc so low.
Recall when that was?

[YellowHammer]

Worst planing experience I've ever had was planing 600 bdft of wet poplar for a customer.  The planer cut the wood like butter but the chips were wet, heavy and large and clogged the discharge continuously.  Also the slippery wood caused feeding problems because the wood residue filled and stuck into the serrations on the metal feed rollers.  And then to top it off, even after what I thought was a good waxing, the next morning my planer bed was completly covered with rust which took hours to remove.  If you are going to plane wet wood, use someone else's planer.  :D
YH

[WDH]

Are you using your planer this weekend?

:D :D

[lowpolyjoe]

Great info - thanks guys.  This is exactly why i asked before laying out cash for a planer and going to work...  Sounds like a better idea to wait until the wood's dry(er) and then have at it.

Fuzzybear you are absolutely right.... patience is a big part of the process with the beam machine.  Unfortunately it's not one of my virtues - i tend to rush everything.  I did try to secure a strip of metal to the inside of the sled on Sunday to try to take up the slack.  The next cut went *terribly* bad so i removed it.  Afterwards i realized the log i was working was just too thick for my saw+bar.  I like the washer idea but i don't have access to welding equiptment.  I wonder if alumaloy sticks to steel - that's the only option i would have.  Oh - and i also tried squeezing the Beam Machine in a vice to get it to close a bit.  It closed around a 2x4 just fine, but immediately sprang back to original shape when i released the vice.  That thing is tough.

Anybody care to comment on how long to get my boards relatively dry if stacked in my spare room in my house?  Typically very dry in my house and near 70degs.  Currently it's 67 with 27% humidity.  Boards are Basswood and vary between 1/2" to 1 1/2" with perhaps a few pieces close to 1 3/4".    I read it's about a year per inch of thickness for typical air drying.  Kind of a bummer but i guess that means i have another 12-18 months to save up for a planer  :D

I'm also kind of curious how carvers and turners dry blocks... if you're looking at a 6x6x6 block... wouldn't that take 6 years to air dry ?!  ???    I heard they prefer air dried to kiln so it made me curious. 

Thanks,
Joe

[WDH]

1 year per inch is a myth.  It depends on the environmental conditions and your climate.  Wood air dried under an open shelter here in Georgia air dries to 12 - 15% much faster than one year.

Drying lumber in your spare room is a bad idea.  It will dry too fast, causeing the lumber to check and split, and your house will get full of water vapor.  That causes bad things to happen.

[thecfarm]

I have a homeowners rigid planer. Will take a 13 inch board,6 inches high. Works good but slow,like my manual mill. I tried some fresh off the saw hemlock. Did not like to feed good at all,but did leave it smooth. The dust chute would plug up and put more drag on the board and keep it from feeding.I would stop and clean it and worked fine for a few feet. I was told on here that would happen. I only did a few this way.Just a few weeks of drying made a big difference,BUT I was only taking off not much more than a ¼ inch. It fed through pretty good. A month drying time,it would feed thorough all by itself. I only have a cheaper roller support,but it saved my life. I did a few 16 footors too. I did find it was much easier to do short lengths,like about 8 feet.

[lowpolyjoe]

Hmmm.. i hadn't thought about the impact on the water vapor coming off the boards if i dried them in my house.  And I certainly don't want them cracking.   Too bad - i was hoping to stack them in my spare room.

Alternatives are my garage or my shed.   Shed is completely full of stuff.  Garage is only mostly full of stuff  ;)    Guess i have more reading to do on the topic.

[lowpolyjoe]

Oh - and my boards are very short so when it comes time to plane them i should be fine with a homeowner's grade planer.  I'm talking 6 to 7 feet.

[hackberry jake]

You may want to look at a jointer/planer combo, or plan on buying a jointer as well. If you put crooked lumber into a planer, you will get crooked lumber out of the planer.

[Al_Smith]

As far as a 500 dollar planer I have a 12 1/2" DeWalt which does okay but you can only take about 1/32-1/16 off at a time .It takes numerious passes just to plane 1" down to 3/4" but given enough time the boards look fine just takes some effoft .

Time to air dry I suppose depends on the geographical location and the wood .Ash maybe a year oak obviously longer .Fact a few years back I made a heavy duty shelf in my shop out of oak which had been air drying for two years and it wasn't done yet although it was hard as a rock .

[SwampDonkey]

You must have had some extremely low relative humidity for that air drying to get the mc so low.
Recall when that was?

Me to. I would figure the MC around 16%. NH is not known to be all that arid a climate. Did you mean to say it was in a heated building drying? ;)

[SwampDonkey]

I air dry my green lumber that I have sawed over the years a minimum of 3 years. The idea behind that is that the cycling of swelling and shrinking is reduced to a point that there is no longer much different in the movement. I mean if it moves 1/8" in either direction it will be much the same movement from then on out. Mine is just stacked in an unheated barn, so 16 % is about it for MC. I then let it sit in the heated shop for a few days/weeks before doing anything much because it will move, no question about it.

[Al_Smith]

. the cycling of smelling and shrinking is reduced to a point 

Well I guess some of it is a little smelly at times  ;)

[SwampDonkey]

Funny how a stuffed up nose from a cold finds it's way to a keyboard. :D :D

[Al_Smith]

You too! I have a told too plus I can't smell right either but then again I probabley have never smelled right .The nose knows .--essence of goat ---

[Tree Feller]

Joe,

I suggest you download a copy of "Drying Hardwood Lumber"...  http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr118.pdf  ...it will tell you what you need to know about stacking and drying your lumber. Gene Wengert, who posted on this thread, is one of the authors. Pay attention to his advice, too. When it comes to drying lumber, if he tells you a chicken dips snuff then you should look under it's wing for the box!

While planing green lumber will decrease drying defects (about 17%), it's not really a big savings on small batches. Wait until the boards have dried to <20% moistue content and then plane them to parallel faces. You won't have to wait a year.