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diesel suckin air

Started by thenorthman, November 25, 2012, 08:27:58 PM

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thenorthman

so I got my deere 440a home and now its sucking air, I have changed the fuel filter, pump, and all rubber hoses and the problem still persists. so far she runs fine at an idle or about 1/3 throttle any thing over that and it starts bogging and puking like its running out of fuel (cause it is...).  About the only thing I haven't taken a real close look at is the steel lines coming out of the fuel tank, because they are covered in grease and gods now what else.

Its got an after market genset motor and use the square glass filter so its easy to see bubbles running through it.

Any suggestions on what I might have missed would be greatly appreciated, I just hope its not the pickup in the fuel tank...
well that didn't work

thurlow

Not at all familiar with your machine, but...........does it have a stanadyne roosa master injection pump?   If it does, I'd look for a  stopped-up/clogged return line.
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

mad murdock

Pickup from the tank plugged? Or
Crack in the line between the tank and the pump?
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

snowstorm

the square glass filter is the way to go. i had trouble with the steel lines that go into the tak before

sandhills

I don't know if you have already done this but first take the steel line loose where it connects to the lift pump (fuel pump).  There should be a GOOD flow of fuel, if not something is plugging it, if there is, check the screen in the sediment bulb, if that's clean start with the lift pump.  My disclaimer is I'm going through the exact same thing with my 4840 JD tractor right now and still haven't got it nailed down but I think the pump is shot, I'll let you know otherwise when the new pump shows up and doesn't fix the problem  ;).

Bobus2003

I had this issue with my 440.. Ended up being the Pick-up in the tank.. So i ran a new line from the Tank drain (bottom of the tank) to my Fuel Pump (electric) havent had any issues since.. running this way for almost 10 years.

redprospector

Before spending a lot of money, check out the fuel filter again. I had the same problem with mine and finally figured out that the (new) filter I bought was "old stock" and the rubber had got hard enough that it wouldn't seal. Showed bubbles just like you were talking about.
Get a primer bulb for an outboard motor, you can move it around anywhere you have rubber hose. Start just before the injection pump, if there's no leaks the bulb will pressure up hard. Move it back behind the filter and try it again. Keep going back to the tank, if there is a leak where it could suck air you'll find it.
If you don't find it in the low pressure side it could be in the injector lines, or possibly the injector's. Those JD stick injectors work good when they work. When they don't they suck.

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

loggah

Ive seen it happen a bunch of times with the glass filters, air leaking around where the o-ring seats on the filter base. make sure your spring clips that hold the filter are putting good pressure on the filter front ,new clips usually make the problem go away. You could try and put a cardboard shim between the clip and the filter to put more pressure on the filter to check if thats the problem.
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

OH logger

just taking a stab at it. i had a  540  and stilll have a case wi-14 loader that i had to change the pump on both of them each because it was doing exactly what yours is. then on the other hand this summer i went through 2 sets of NEW fuel filters on my 548 g111 after it acted like you say -TWICE! talk about aggrevating when you are allreday backed up on work and then that. hope it helps you narrow things down!
john

thenorthman

Thankee gents,  When I get some daylight...Saturday at the earliest... I'll look into the filter seems odd since its got presure there but that does seem to be the consensus... step two will be the pickup up tube to the first rubber hose... and then if that don't werk look into running off a can.   I need to pull the fuel tank anyway since it leaks but I would like to have it running tip top before I light the tank on fire... should be funny at least
Any one ever pull the fuel tank on one of these beasties, how much of a chore is it gonna be, and will it come out just  by kicking it all the way left or right, or does it need to come out the bottom past the drive line?  Thanks again

I got an offer from an out of work diesel mechanic but I have trouble trusting any "mechanic" let alone an out of werk one... well lets be honest I have trouble paying for something I can do myself...
well that didn't work

snowstorm

only way the tank will come out is split the machine

redprospector

Quote from: snowstorm on November 27, 2012, 06:03:14 AM
only way the tank will come out is split the machine
Yep. Mine has a tank that's not original. I remember looking at it thinking; I'll bet that was fun.

I don't know where the leak is, or how bad the tank is, but one of the liquid gas tank sealers that coats the inside of the tank might be the best option (until you gotta change the center pins). Of corse there's alway's JB Weld. Make sure it's the gas tank blend. The original was impervious to gasoline, & diesel, but not any more. You have to buy the one for gas tanks.

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

SPIKER

If you have it running and it is sucking air you can use some 90w gear oil and a oilier to squirt onto fittings one at a time so it is covered and watch for the leak to go away.   this will work around the bowl as well.   

Check for screens inside tank too that can clog and at banjo fittings.   Rubber lines (older ones especially) can suck a flap in and pull in air or clog the fuel line pulling greater vacuum so any perfection draws the air...

Mark 
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

thenorthman

I believe the leak is in the bottom, the belly pan was "relieved" for clearance of the drive line allowing it to bend even more and rubbed a little hole in the tank.  That's one more thing to fix before I get it in the woods... So theoretically J.B. weld will do the trick... Man I love that stuff... in the parts list next to the planetary axle view is hand written J.B. WELD kinda ominous...
well that didn't work

SPIKER

thenorthman:  I've had MUCH better luck using the Epoxy Putty, one around here is "QUICK STEEL" is real good stuff.  works underwater and seals gas/oil/high temp radiators etc.  I keep a tube around for quick fix needs and only needs about 15min to be nearly fully cured.MM
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

snowstorm

there is also a sump in the bottom of that tank with a drain plug

thenorthman

Narrowed it down to the fuel filter... NAPA has several different types of the same shape one has larger and longer O rings gonna give that one a try tomarrow morning get dark quick these days and I had to go machine lasers today... gees I need a vacation...
well that didn't work

islandlogger

Vacation....what one o them?? Hope that thar filter works for ye lad, nice when it's the "simpler" things eh?

Run or die

islandlogger

thenorthman

Seems to be werk'n better now,  went through the lines again and found a not so tight one... Tore the Hel out of the driveway messin with it though... pushed a few trees over (just wittle ones) in the local mud pit... now to find some thing really big to cut down and try that there winch out... hmm the house across the street is abandoned... actually both of em are...
well that didn't work

snowstorm

hmm the house across the street is abandoned..... .reminds me of the time i was asked to move a house. this guy buys an addition for his house. he says it will be easy ill jack it up and you just back your lowbed under it. well its 16x16 and 16' tall add 30" for the trailer its above the lite wires. so i tell him go cut those 2 popple and put them under it for skids them get your buddy and skidder and haul it home. it was only about 1500' down the road. so that works fine. next i dig for the foundation and the owner builds one out of cement blocks. so i backfill and gravel a ramp. the new addition needs to go up 4'. so drive a nail in the old house and the window sill of the new for a sight. so everything lines up. put planks down with some pipe for it to roll on. so the owner says if you cant push it up onto the foundation with the dozer. ill cut a hole in the wall and run the winch cable thru and have my buddy winch it on with his skidder. i pushed it on the nails lined up all was good. and yes it was in brooks me..........that explains it all

thenorthman

so the filter only helped...

ended up running some rubber hydraulic hose from the drain plug and back around to connect with the rest of the line, bypassing the original pickup tube,  much better now, full throttle 5th gear or so and dump the clutch she'll pick the front wheels up...  have to slow down in 8th to make the corners...

Put some covers back on and iron out the belly pan a little bit and she's ready to go to work
well that didn't work

beenthere

Quotefull throttle 5th gear or so and dump the clutch she'll pick the front wheels up

Wow!!! That oughta be real good for it...   ;D ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

thenorthman

to be honest I'm still figuring out the gears on this thing, popping wheelies will not be a standard practice.  It hasn't been running at 100% so now that it is I have to relearn the gears... Hel I'm just happy its not a gutless wonder.
well that didn't work

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