Frustrated...and new

[CCC4]

I have been researching logging jobs in Oregon and have come to the realization  that there just aren't very many "chainsaw faller" jobs out there! This is upsetting to me because I feel as i have been "grooming" myself for 18 years to do something big! Seems to me that the only people getting hired in the PNW have like 30 years of experience! That is great and all...but what about the up and coming 39 year old with 18 years of experience, currently running a chainsaw 10 to 11 hours a day 4 to 5 days a week??? Not to mention excellent health, very athletic, sound back, good hands, knees.... on and on. I totally CANNOT just go out to the PNW and start dropping "Old growth giants"...due to the fact we don't have timber of that species nor overall size...but that should not keep me from getting some sort of a shot out in the Oregon region! In my opinion (everyone has one) due to what I have seen around here, a logger of 30 years is on his way out! Sorry...but true! They are extremely good at what they do, i am sure I could learn ALOT from someone with that type of experience however I don't think I am going to get the opportunity to do so. I want to fall timber in Oregon so DanG bad I obsess over it! Right now, with my experience I feel as I am at a point of hardened maturity excellent health and body and REALLY want to be out in the PNW falling trees... Any ideas, tips, contacts... I have references can pass drug screening, clean arrest record... geez I just want a shot at a life goal! Thanks for reading!

[redprospector]

The timber industry in the Pacific North West is just a shaddow of it's former self.
There are probably 10 experienced fallers to every job available. It cost a lot more for a company to train someone new than to utilize someone who already knows what they are doing.
Don't count us guy's with 30 years under our belts out so quickly. I know a guy in his 70's that's still running a show.
If you are really obsessed with falling timber in Oregon I would recommend that you pack your stuff and move up there. You can't land a falling job in Oregon while living in Arkansas. If you're dreaming of dropping "Old growth giants", you'll likely be disapointed.
You may be able to land a job hooking chokers on a yarder, and work your way into a falling position. But the odds are against landing that falling job without experience in the area.
Good luck.

Andy

[CCC4]

Thank you for your reply Sir. I was hoping this wasn't a dead forum. Very true on all aspects of your reply. IF...and i say IF, I thought I could get a job out there that would be a stepping stone towards my goal, and not break my family in the learning process I would peel out of here and head West. I know that  if I am serious, I need to do just that, however I have zero contacts, the logging groups I have spoke with over the phone have all said that due to restrictions, there wasn't alot of work in that region anymore. I don't think I could easily get a choke setter job even, due to the large amount of un-employed loggers in that region.

As far as my earlier post where i said that loggers with 30 years on them are on there way out, well I didn't mean that disrespectfully. I am just one of those guys who if someone else is doing "x" amount...I am going to try and out do them, I love breaking peoples personal records and always have set my mind to do just that, if at all possible.

Insurance is what is killing the chainsaw hand! Even the crew i work for uses a "fellar buncher" due to rising insurance rates...as with most logging groups in my area. The only trees i get to cut are on steep rough ground. I am on a government  thinning job right now, a hand faller can't do crap due to the fact that a buncher makes it waaaay easier for the skidder to just run down the rows and grab an already made drag. The upsetting thing is I read where people talk about the chainsaw faller being a sort of dying trend, well if more room was made available to someone like me...it wouldn't be dying out. Thanks again for your reply. Cheers

[Rocky_Ranger]

Where in the heck is Dolph Arkansas?  Lived there many years and never crossed its doorway.....  Here is your dilemma; you were born 50 - 75 years too late.  Oregon boomed up until the mid to late 80's (1980's), and you would have loved it - I did.  But as you say, things have changed; industry dying out, more mechanization, loss of old-growth and big trees, lots of unemployment and lots of expensive steel rusting in the sun.  You're going to have to move somewhere there is not as much mechanization - I don't know where that is, maybe Montana or Idaho in some helicopter shows.  Most everywhere that can has shifted to harvesters, much more efficient and safer.

[mikeb1079]

the logging groups I have spoke with over the phone have all said that due to restrictions, there wasn't alot of work in that region anymore. I don't think I could easily get a choke setter job even, due to the large amount of un-employed loggers in that region.

unfortunately it sounds like you may have answered your own question.... :( :(

but if it's what you really want to do keep at it   

[CCC4]

Where in the heck is Dolph Arkansas?  Lived there many years and never crossed its doorway...

The "HUGE" city of Dolph is located south of Mtn. Home near Calico Rock. Where in Arkansas did you reside? The crew I log with is cutting the Heber Springs Dam Site. So far I have gotten along well with our Forester, he is a little younger than me but seems easy to work with. The only gripe has been over me not wearing safety glasses near the highway...if that is our only complaint...we are "golden"!  :D

[Rocky_Ranger]

That explains it - never worked much around Mtn Home, awfully pretty country up there.  I lived at Booneville, Mena, went to school (college) at Monticello, worked some around Fayetteville and Ozark.  Owned a farm outside Booneville and a wood products business outside Waldron, USFS at Booneville, Mena, Jesseville, Danville, worked road construction in the early days in the Ouachitas.......

[Okrafarmer]

One thing I've found is, that, unless there is a job that there is an actual SHORTAGE of skilled workers available for, you / I can't land a job without being there in person.

If you're that serious about it, you'll need to pack up and get out there, get yourself some kind of sustaining job, and then spend all your free time going around convincing everyone how much you want to fell trees.

HINT: when you talk to them, don't use the term "old growth" or "big trees" and don't use any old fashioned terminology. They will smell you coming a mile away and think (rightly? not intending to be unkind) that you're another one of "them-there moon-struck romantical logger fellows" that they've seen before. Instead, ask them if there is any way that a position might come available-- you are an experineced feller with great references, good health, and determination. You just love felling trees, and you're not afraid of hard work. Find everyone, and keep going around and asking them again and again if they might have any openings. This may take a year or more, and some of them will hate you, but sooner or later, one of them will have an opening, and say, "Listen buddy, if you're ready to start, come on down to the yard. One of my guys just quit/got fired/died/got injured."

Meanwhile, you may find a job for an arborist doing tree work in town. Don't be surprised if you get to fell a few good-sized trees that way, too. Keep at it, and while you do that,  keep pestering those logger fellows until they give you the job you really want.

Or. . . . start thinking about some other options.  :-\

The PNW is a beautiful place. That's where my dad grew up, in the Willammette Valley of Oregon.  He tells a lot of stories about seeing the logging in operation. (His dad was a farmer, near Junction City).

[thenorthman]

Many of the "shows" around here and I assume in Oree gone as well contract out the cutting, and you have to bid on it to get the job.  Which means you have to have a business license, if its a gubamint job count on having your own insurance and probably a bond as well.  Technically speaking in warshington you don't need insurance to go logging, but try getting hired without it.

If you want to work out here its steep nasty ground with very tall timber, the cutters move in a few days or weeks before the machinery, and keep right on cutting after they get there.  Most of the time you will be very far from help or assistance if the need should arise.  Most of the full time crews travel upward of 100 miles a day one way and most of that is on narrow, steep, windy mountain roads, dodging deer, elk, environmentalists, log trucks, rednecks, all at break neck speeds. 

Also because of the restrictions on cutting federal and state land, their is just not enough timber to keep a once booming economy going, which means lots of cutters looking for work, guys that hate their jobs at Boeing, would kill or maim to get back in the woods.  Processors have taken the need for cutters hear as well, trees are largely hand fell, and then yarded tree length to the landing where the processor does its magic.  If one guy is only falling no bucking no limbing he can cut allot of ground in a short time and stay in front of the yarder.

I am not trying to shoot down you're dreams, just giving a reality check.  The timber out here is really very impressive, especially if all your used to is deciduous and the occasional pines, dumping 180' tall 3' diameter Doug fir is something you will never forget, and it will never let you leave...

[CCC4]

Okrafarmer, good advice!

thenorthman, your not discouraging me at all. Makes me want to try it even more. I always work way out in front of the skidder and am used to taking care of myself. Like Okrafarmer said about not wanting to come off as romantical and moonstruck...but in actuality if that doesn't exist somewhere inside you...you probably are in it for the wrong reasons.  I just remembered I applied to forestry school in Olympia back in '91, didn't get excepted. Beautiful area though, you are lucky to live there!

[Okrafarmer]

CCC4, it's ok to be romantical and moon-struck inside, just don't let it show when you are trying to apply for a job.  ;) Then when you finally do get your job, enjoy it to your heart's content (while being careful, of course!)

It's ok to let them know you are passionate about cutting trees, just don't overdo it or seem too sentimental about it. Cutting trees is all they need to know-- the ones they cut are the ones you want to cut, you just don't need to come across like a know-it-all about what they do, because even though you can cut trees down-- maybe even big ones-- they won't be impressed by your impression of a larger-than-life western logging hero lifestyle (in their opinion).

It would be the same thing as a guy from Pennsylvania finally pursuing a dream to make it to Wyoming and be a cowboy. They're going to take a long weary look at him, and say, "I'm not asking if you can ride a horse, I'm asking if you can ride our horses the way we ride them, and keep on doing it day after day with sweat and dust coming down your face, and keep up with us and be useful." Now maybe the Pennsylvania cow-dude CAN, but it will take some convincing, and mentioning Roy Rogers probably won't help. 

[shelbycharger400]

What is the biggest job you have clear cut?


 
That treeline that is infront of my mirror was already 1/2 on the ground (from me)
That photo was from day 2. I had friends show up to help saying it looked like a tornado went through, having trees down on the ground on both sides.   The stand left in photo was 2 rows of white/jack/red pine all 12in +,  the total project was about 1/4 mile long .  That stand standing was over 400 trees.  I had "helpers" that would come out for a few hours ect here and their, they wernt very productive. I did get more done by myself. I didnt even let them fell trees.
The farmer did help with a skid loader draging logs after I limbed them and knocked them down. When you drop a Pine that flairs , they dont just crash and lay down, the butt POPS up about 20 feet into the air!  The guy I was working with changed directions between cutting for firewood to saw logs so many times. It wasted a lot of time.  I think it was about 12-14 chords of saw logs left their to the mill, still have about 6 chords of pulp/ firewood their still in log form, I have 4 chords split and stacked with 2 more not split here, And I hauled 4-5 chords of blockwood to the boss.
I was lucky with only 3 or 4 hangers.  They were so close together you had to select cut here then their ect, then the wind changed direction, felling into the wind, against the wind, then the personal favorite (makes my teeth grind) Having to drop one tree into another to get it to crash cause its all tied up in another.  Soon as you see the kerf opening up keep sawing til you here cracking, pull the saw out and run like Hail fire!  A few times I didnt even grab the saw, just took off.   Everyone was worried it wasnt going to be done in time including myself, but we were done one week before the sprinkler crew came to setup . I had started it last feb, and was done in march, doing it a few hours each night, and a few weekends.
If I had a fellerbuncher, all would have been down in one day! not a week or 2.
Felling them down is the easy part, limbing them all out is a LOT of work!   These were 40-60 ft tall trees!

Sometimes you just can't do it all on your own, and its very hard to find good help.

[CCC4]

Okrafarmer, gotcha! Hey I have some relatives in Greenville.

shelbycharger400, rarely do any crews get to clearcut anything in my area. I bid a gov job a few years ago and clear cut around 95 acres of cedar for food plots, that was me doing 100% of the job. Last month the crew I cut for basically clear cut 150 acres of pine but the buncher did all but about 5% of it. I mostly limbed and only fell one steep hollar. That is what I keep running into...I just fall the crap the tree cutter can't get to as of right now. I wish I could get a better view of your picture, so the field was timber? Or you cut the existing tree line? Further south of me down by Louisianna you run into more clear cutting (all mechanical). Up here, more people are worried about erosion into the river due to land clearing and such.

edit...I went back and re-read your post, you cut the tree line out...right? Sorry for my ignorance.  ;D

[mad murdock]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum CCC4, and don't give up.  If you are willing to work, and show up on time to work, you will find a job.  Like Northman said a lot of the work here is contract, most of the big timber co;s have shed themselves of their own shows and hire out all their work, even their road maintenance in a lot of cases.  I don't work in the woods on a logging show, but the co i work for does support the timber industry with our helicopters, to prep areas that have been logged for replanting, and fertilizing for stand improvement.  A lot of the timber here is machine cut now, but there is a portion of just about any job that has to be hnd felled, due to terrain.   I get my kicks on my tree farm, doing my own logging, and am always trying to figure a way to do it more and more, as my day job gets more lackluster.
like i said, keep at it, if you are serious, you'll catch a break if you are physically here, may not start felling right off, might have to settle for chasing chokers, or something else first.  The recent policy change of the current administration sectioning off 9.6 million acres in Ore, Wash, and Cali, for the spotted owl doesn't help none, but there is plenty of private timber and small woodlands that needs tending to as well. Good luck!

[CCC4]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum CCC4, and don't give up.

Thank you Sir! Hey, being as winter is upon us, this is surely a slow time, should I wait till early Spring to head out? Or does it matter when?

[mad murdock]

logging gos on mostly yeaar round, bot there are more weather days in the winter.  If you have a target area in mind, and are ready to go, the sooner you get here, and get some networking going, the sooner you will get hired on, IMO.

[captain_crunch]

Tree Huggers and Owls now own all the Big timber so those days are kinda gone. only work for a timberfaller is BAD ground where mechanical harvsters cant get to. Alaska may well be a better choice to foefill your dream. Most of us who use to do this have had to go to different ways of earning a liveing >:( : :

[Okrafarmer]

After all, Alaska is the Pacific Northest Westest.

The trees may not be nearly as big, but the scenery is unforgettable.

[beenthere]

Unless you are native american, then Alaska is not cutting any on the National Forest holdings.
20+ years ago the forests were divided up between the the indians who were allowed to 'manage' their own holdings. No cutting at all on the federal holdings.
The indians essentially proceeded to clear cut. When they ran out of their land, they traded land with the feds - go figure.

Tree cutters were and likely still are jobless, unless they found other work.

More pathetic in AK than in the states. Maybe Canada??

Or the reality, what was will not be anymore.

[thenorthman]

Its still possible to cut some PNW big timber, but its all on private land, or company land.  Of course nothing like it was 30 or more years ago. but you can sometimes see the occasional 3 log loads.  I have a job this spring that has several loads of 3' dbh or better timber in it.  Some of the DNR land around these parts has been inaccessable for many years and is just now getting reopened, mostly because there is some big timber in there, and our lovely local dnr is flat broke.

With the stupid owl thing going, I'm hoping that the mills will be starving for wood and there prices will go up a bit so the private land owners will be more inclined to have their land logged.  And since all the big companies around here are mostly mechanized than that leaves the little guys like me with a saw a skidder and maybe a shovel to get in there and make some money...

[islandlogger]

Amen Northman!!

[redprospector]

As far as my earlier post where i said that loggers with 30 years on them are on there way out, well I didn't mean that disrespectfully. I am just one of those guys who if someone else is doing "x" amount...I am going to try and out do them, I love breaking peoples personal records and always have set my mind to do just that, if at all possible.

I didn't take it disrespectfully. But you'll find out that the "old timers" have the experience that you're going to need.
It's not all about putting more on the ground than the other guy. Broken logs aren't worth much.
In some places a faller can let most trees go where they're leaning, and let the skidder sort out the mess. Where you want to go a faller has to fall to the lead. Leaving a "jack strawed" mess will end a career early.
Watch, learn, and listen. That's my advice.

Andy

[Leigh Family Farm]

Ever thought about a working vacation? I would head to the PNW for a month or two and make contacts, try to get hired as short time work during the busy season, and do what Okra said and keep asking loggers. This way I still have my job back in AK in case things don't pan out and I haven't uprooted my family. BUT to do this, you would need to have several months of living expenses saved up to cover while you are out west and the OK from the boss to take the summer off.

Even just showing up for a week to make face-to-face contacts would go a lot farther than phone calls. Also, keep tabs on which company was awarded which contracts for logging. Call those companies and see if they are hiring for the upcoming job, or if they subcontract their work who does it for them and then call them for jobs. To get your foot in the door, offer to work a week free to test out for the job. I know this is not the best financial option for you but its the best for the logger. At the end of the week, you will be able to say you gave it your best and did good work and the logger will know you have what it takes.

Just my opinion...

[beenthere]

I think he is in Arkansas, not Alaska....  ;) 

[shelbycharger400]

Yep just took the treeline out.

Yea that owl thing is stupid. Most of the Forest creatures live in the clear cut or newly clear cut areas, That means mouse and rat, and that Obnoxious owl that dosn't shut up at night.  Old growth forest is nearly life dead in perspective, not as much going on.

[thenorthman]

If you know where to look there is still a bit of old growth in these parts, I have NEVER seen a spotted owl in old growth, its always been in second or third growth.  Hel I saw one that got ran over a few months ago and there wasn't a stick of old growth, within 30 miles (no i didn't run it over but i did think about getting pictures).  The oligists say that they live in the hallows of old trees that can only be created through age,  the oligists are only looking in old growth.  and besides the fuzz balls have never been real bountiful here anyway.  Its just something for the granola crunchers to latch on to so they can "save the forest" through inaction which leads to massive forest fires and disease, not to mention poverty and ruin.  Face it this country was founded and supported by timber.

[Okrafarmer]

I think he is in Arkansas, not Alaska....  ;) 

Yes, Arkansas is AR, not AK. He's not the first one to get it confused, though.  ;D

[captain_crunch]

 For example saw in back 372 Husky is standard falling saw /28" bar.  Back in old times 42" bar on 2100(hopped up saw) was minimum you could get away with on steep ground

[captain_crunch]

 

[captain_crunch]

This is almost steep ground we still can use cats on this terrain

Just for perspective mill shed is 28X70

[Leigh Family Farm]

I think he is in Arkansas, not Alaska....  ;) 

Yes, Arkansas is AR, not AK. He's not the first one to get it confused, though.  ;D

Got a college degree too!  :D

[JohnM]

Got a college degree too!  :D

Kollage FTW!  ;)

[CCC4]

Hey men! Just got back in to town after a long week. I am not near a computer where we are staying and logging...so, sorry for not replying back for a bit. I usually get to stay home 2 nights then, back to the woods.

I really appreciate all the replies and encouragement! As I handed my wife my paycheck for the week, I saw in her face that it isn't enough. I don't owe alot, mainly the normal land payment, car payment, etc. I know economy is bad everywhere but I have got to do something. We (my wife and I) are nervous about me just packing up and heading out to the PNW...there has got to be something for me out there. I REALLY don't want to jump back into a saw box... 9 years solo was really getting to me, I want to stay in the woods. I totally understand I need to be out there in person...I just need to figure out how. Thanks again guys! Hope you all had a safe work week and are home maybe.

Clint