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Banding Material

Started by rooster 58, November 20, 2012, 06:01:13 PM

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rooster 58

I was wondering if anyone tried nylon strapping material for lumber paks and slabs? And if so how did it work as opposed to steel?

Bibbyman

We've used 5/8 poly for banding lumber for years.  Won't go back to steel.   We only band slabs occasionally but it works fine.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

wwsjr

I use 5/8" poly, cost about half as much as steel. Tools are pricey to start, but you can make it up with less cost for steel banding.
Retired US Army, Full Time Sawyer since 2001. 2013 LT40HD Super with 25HP 3 Phase, Command Control with Accuset2. ED26 WM Edger, Ford 3930 w/FEL, Prentice Log Loader. Stihl 311, 170 & Logrite Canthooks. WM Million BF Club Member.

black spruce

I my day job I work for a strapping manufacturer

General guideline go with polyester 5/8 x.035 or .040 with break strength of 1400-1600# here is why

1- cost 40 % cheaper than steel
2- 50,%ligther
3- elongation memory when properly applied right tension level the downward force to the top of stack combine with memory of the strap greatly contribute the reduce downgrade during drying process  air dry or industrial drying
Have done test at industrial mill with grade improvement of 2-4% worth millions on a 200 millions bft mill . On lower scale I have use with larch witch is very to twist bow and camber for personal air dry very impressive.

4- you cannot do that with steel no memory

5- no rust good for high end hardwood market

6- safer to use and 100% recyclable

7- you need to bring the strap in its working range and pull good tension so the memory effect work on you side

......
Good luck

paul case

I just switched from flat braided nylon banding with buckles to polyester with the gripper seals. It works great. I asked the guy who buys lots of cants from me  and he told me he lost a bundle of cants off his lift and rolled it over 3 times and it was still square and together. 2 bands on 25 3x4-10 oak sticks. I bought the tools and all from Uline.com  .  PC
these.

http://www.uline.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?modelnumber=S-3250&FromOrderHistory=Y

http://www.uline.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?modelnumber=H-703&FromOrderHistory=Y

http://www.uline.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?modelnumber=S-2158&FromOrderHistory=Y

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-572/Polyester-Strapping-Tools/Polyester-Tensioner
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

irvi00

Since the majority of our pine will be pressure treated, we switched to the poly banding. I love it due to being a little rougher with the packs and the banding gives instead of breaks. Funny thing is, we had to switch due to the corrosion of the "new" treatment. It would eat up steel banding in a few months. And it's supposed to be safer?

logboy

Remember, if youre doing Oak steel banding will blacken it.
I like Lucas Mills and big wood.  www.logboy.com

barbender

Paul, what made you move away from the woven poly/buckles? Just curious,  i bought one of the 3/4" woven poly starter kits, it works good but it is a little bit overkill for what I do. I'll probably go with the 5/8" when it's time to get more.
Too many irons in the fire

francismilker

Quote from: paul case on November 20, 2012, 09:46:49 PM
I just switched from flat braided nylon banding with buckles to polyester with the gripper seals. It works great. I asked the guy who buys lots of cants from me  and he told me he lost a bundle of cants off his lift and rolled it over 3 times and it was still square and together. 2 bands on 25 3x4-10 oak sticks. I bought the tools and all from Uline.com  .  PC
these.

http://www.uline.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?modelnumber=S-3250&FromOrderHistory=Y

http://www.uline.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?modelnumber=H-703&FromOrderHistory=Y

http://www.uline.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?modelnumber=S-2158&FromOrderHistory=Y

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-572/Polyester-Strapping-Tools/Polyester-Tensioner

Thanks for the links Paul.  You took the homework out of the equation for me.  I've been meaning to ask this same question and wanted to go with poly.  I'll make an order shortly.  Too bad the minimum order on buckles is 1000 count.  I might not use that many in 10 years but at least I'll have plenty.
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

WM LT-10supergo, MF-271 w/FEL, Honda 500 Foreman, Husq 550, Stihl 026, and lots of baling wire!

terrifictimbersllc

I bought Kubinec brand poly strapping, buckles and strapping tools here and was very happy with service:

http://www.ptipackaging.com

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

jcbrotz

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on November 22, 2012, 08:19:59 AM
I bought Kubinec brand poly strapping, buckles and strapping tools here and was very happy with service:

http://www.ptipackaging.com
I second this. I originaly bought the starter kit from Baileys then 1000 count buckles and the 2 roll kit 3300ft each i believe from pti. I should be set for a bit now.
2004 woodmizer lt40hd 33hp kubota, Cat 262B skidsteer and way to many tractors to list. www.Brotzmanswoodworks.com and www.Brotzmanscenturyfarm.com

paul case

The cheapest poly strapping I had found was on a 2500ft roll from Uline at about $.04/ft
http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-12925/Poly-Cord-Strapping/3-4-x-2500-Heavy-Duty-Polyester-Cord-Strapping

The buckles are a little higher than the gripper seals for the polyester.
The polyester from uline cost me $.025/ft. After the first roll the tools will have paid for themselves. Moving more lumber and slabs means using more banding. I used about 5000ft of banding last year so This will last me a while.
There is another benefit I found with the polyester banding. It is stiff enough to stick it through under a stack of lumber on cants without having to push it through with a stick. That saves a little time. The tensioner I am using I had given to me and it works with either the poly cord strap or the polyester banding.
That poly cord strapping works real well and it is cheap to get started. The ''manpower'' tensioner from baileys works real well.

I have had very good service, delivery, and experience with tools from Baileys and Uline.
PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

drobertson

only using steel banding I would have never believed the results you guys have had with this type of banding.  I can see the advantage on oak that is finished or going to be banded for any length of time, to avoid the stain, but I did not know it would hold up like steel banding.  thanks for the info.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Meadows Miller

Gday

Im still 3/4 steel strapping for everything atm but dad also got a poly bander for packing the log home logs and components due to the rust/marks issue while i was away so i might have to give it another go, I have used plastic/poly banding alot over the years but i always seem to come back to steel strapping though  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

Kansas

We switched from steel to McGregor company plastic or nylon packaging out of down south. Some sort of plastic, best move we ever made. It uses the clips like you use on steel. We won't ever go back. Much cheaper.

kderby

I use the 5/8 poly and was looking at steel for the firewood bundles (large and stored outdoors).  One of my crew double-wrapped the poly and pulled it tight.  No failures!  For the largest part of my work, poly works well.

I'll watch Craigs List and auctions for steel....someday...just to have the option.

Nice to see what others are experiencing. 

Thanks Y'all 8)

sigidi

I use 19mm steel and double clip it all to give it a bit of 'extra' hold ;D
Always willing to help - Allan

Okrafarmer

I'm trying to figure out what to use. I need to get something, but not sure what all is involved since I haven't strapped lumber since 2000. If I go with one of the poly strapping systems, what do I need besides the strap material itself? Some things have the buckles, and others use another method-- ok, what do I need to get set up?
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Brucer

I switched from steel strapping to 3/4" polyester strapping for my slab bundles. Also used it for shipping 900 lb of Douglas-Fir to a customer. And in a pinch I've used it to sling a stack of lumber onto a customer's trailer.

I started with the Poly Strapping Kit from Bailey's, just to see how it would work. The strapping is rated at 2700 pounds and uses metal buckles to fasten the straps. Thread the strap through the buckles, pull it tight, and cut the excess strapping. No crimping required.

The kit uses as manual tensioner, which works OK but is best used on rectangular bundles rather than round ones. It also doesn't get the strap as tight as a ratchet tensioner will.

Last year I broke down and bought a ratchet tensioner. Now that really gets things tight.

I found with steel strapping you could break a strap if you overtensioned it (and you don't want to be directly in line with the strap when it goes). I've never been able to break a poly strap.

We have dropped slab bundles from a height (not on purpose), we've speared the strapping with a fork (not on purpose), and we've dragged slab bundles off a truck. I couldn't do any of those with steel strapping (at least not if I wanted the bundle to stay together).
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

JSwigga

I got lucky, we have a big hardware store close and the owner is a wood lover.  I traded him 2 slabs of sycamore for 4000 feet of poly banding, the bander (if thats what its called), buckles, and a handtruck that holds the spool.  It was about $500 I believe.  I think the poly will be a lot more gentle on the wood and shouldn't stain it.
60" Lucas Dedicated Slabber, TimberKing 2200 , 5 ton Nissan forklift, John Deere FEL

YellowHammer

I use the heavy duty green plastic strapping with the special gripper crimps on the big loads, then less expensive crimped black poly for light duty use.   I screwed up while moving banded  pallets of lumber and had 300 bdft of  stickered  oak fall about 7 feet and was it still tight as a drum.   Love the stuff
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Okrafarmer

Thanks, guys! Looks like I need about $500 to start out and it's all happy trails from there. Now to find the $500.  :-\
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

rooster 58

    The place where I bought the LT70 is a broker for commercial woodworking equipment.
 
    When I arrived to pick it up, the lapsider , outfeed table and some other stuff was strapped to the bed of the mill with 5/8 woven poly.Randy highly recommended it to me. It's made by Carolina Strapping Co. Randy uses the Gator Strap. I called the other day and am awaiting the pricelist via internet.

     On another note, I had someone tell me that he tried poly, but stopped because he had some buyers refuse loads if poly was used. According to him, the buyers said it frayed during shipping when packs rubbed together. Not sure I believe that one

Okrafarmer

Well, at this point my "loads" will rarely be more than two banded packs at once!
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

paul case

I too started with the polyester and buckles but recently switched to the green 5/8 stuff and gripper seals. Either work well. the green stuff is stiff enough to poke it through under a stack which is real handy. The cord strapping has to be pushed under with a stick. I get all mine from uline.com. The yellow poly cord strapping and buckles cost about $100 for 2500 ft of stapping and 100 for the buckles and 75 for the tensioner. The green is something like $100 for 4200 ft of strapping, 100 for a box of seals, 100 for the crimper, 100 for the tensioner.

I have some steel and the tools to do steel but have never used it. PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

rooster 58

    At the chemical plant where I worked we used the green poly to strap the lids on the cartons we filled with our product. We had an inline automatic bander that heat sealed the strapping.

    We also used hand banders at times to either band when the bander was down(sometimes often), or for banding scrap cardboard or such. We had a couple different styles of banders. I preferred the ratchet type that actually wrapped the tail aroud a wheel to tighten. You could get the band very tight and the ratchet didn't slip. The other style was also a ratchet, but employed knurled wheels to grab and pull the strap tight . These did not allow as tight of a band, and also wore out after awhile.

    Before I left that department to work the reactors, we got handheld, battery operated heat seal banders. I didn't like those. They were cumbersome, heavier than the manuals, also didn't pull as tight, and we had frequent problems with the heat seal not being hot enough, which caused the seal to pop

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: Okrafarmer on February 07, 2013, 10:57:28 PM
I'm trying to figure out what to use. I need to get something, but not sure what all is involved since I haven't strapped lumber since 2000. If I go with one of the poly strapping systems, what do I need besides the strap material itself? Some things have the buckles, and others use another method-- ok, what do I need to get set up?
If 3/4 poly is the right strength for your application then this kit will get you started and let you learn what works for you without any waste.
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=KSS+1000&catID=   or from http://www.ptipackaging.com/Qstore/c000276.htm

The manual tensioner is effective, indestructible, and can really pull it tight but takes a bit to learn, might not be the best if your banding is going to be done by a number of different persons.

Once into buying bulk supplies I recommend Kubinec strapping and buckles from PTI packaging too.
http://www.ptipackaging.com/Qstore/c000277.htm 
I got 3300 ft of 3/4 and a box of 1000 buckles from them.  Strapping comes in a number of different widths which one you use depends on your application and maybe how many bands you want to use per bundle etc.  The manual tensioner handles different strapping widths.   The buckles and strapping are quite re-usable.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

kderby

I have stepped up to the braided banding and buckles for my slabs. I was using old nine gauge telephone wire and ran out of my supply.  For the braided strapping there was a learning curve ::) ::) ::)

The slabs of fire wood was the target that needed strapping.  The slabs are placed in a steel bin and they get strapped before the forklift lifts them out.  Then they get a third strap and off to storage or sold!

We started using the Kubinec product from Bailey's.  My crewman was doing the strapping and we started to have failures! :o :o.  We would lift the bundle and during movement if would implode. >:( >:( >:(  Re-stacking low value firewood in not a way to cheer me up!  I took the moment to analyze the failed straps.  The way the buckle is threaded matters.  Incorrect threading equals failed buckle and a mess.

My crewman is very bright (too bright?) but stubborn!  So I took him aside and showed him the difference in the buckle threading.  He started throwing all sorts of "what if" and "yeah but" scenarios.  I got in his face and said STOP!  This is not about thinking of any other variable.  There is a correct way and a non-correct way to thread the buckle.  I hope that he got my message.  The product is not what failed.  The human factor (both of us) needed some edification/adjustment.

I share this to share my progress and lesson.  Hopefully I will see this product serve us well. 8)

Okrafarmer

Yes, we all need to band together in times like these.  ;D

I am still orbiting the marketplace waiting for just the right time and product to pounce on. So far I'm still using invisible strapping or ratchet straps.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

kderby

OK ???

You had better get that prescription re-filled! ;D

Okrafarmer

Quote from: kderby on June 07, 2013, 01:18:28 AM
OK ???

You had better get that prescription re-filled! ;D

:o
No! It would kill us!
(Smeagol, LOTR)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

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