WM LT40 HD or Super HD?

[Finn1903]

I am looking for some opinions out there on the standard LT40 HD or going with the super hydraulics.  I have only been around super HD WMs and not around the standard.  The supers are fast.  What is slower on the standard hydraulics?  If sawing by myself what will I notice that is slower?  Is a good or bad example a HST Kubota that can run circles around the hydraulics my NH 3930 tractor? 
I am pretty set on diesel because I have diesel fuel around the farm.  Any opinions on the yanmars?
My budget is stretching for a new LT40, but for the same price or less I could get a used super.  New vs used opinion?
The mill will be part-time business to pay for the mill and the rest of the time and  milling dimensional lumber for our farm. 

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Finn1903.

I have never seen a standard LT40 operate, so I really can not speak to it.  I have the SH which has dual hydraulic pumps, and I am yet to find a log that I could not load and handle.  I certainly would not want less. 

WM can give you the entire list of the differences between the two.

[Chuck White]

Finn1903, welcome to the Forestry Forum.

I have a 1995 standard hydraulic sawmill, and pretty much as MM said, I haven't had a log to mill that the loader wouldn't lift!

Look over the list of options you have available for each of the mills.

If I was going to get a different mill than what I have, the only thing I can think of that I'd want is the stationary control at the head of the mill vs the walk-along (or ride) like I have!

I think the diesel would be a good choice in your situation.  They cost more initially, but eventually it'll equal out, due to the hours per gallon of fuel!

[DR Buck]

I have the standard and wish I had the super.   Even when I'm at home sawing for myself I wish the hydraulics moved faster.  And regardless of what others may say, I have found many times I had logs to heavy for the loader to lift.

Bottom line ---  Get a Super if you can.   Used is not bad as Wood-Mizer has all the parts available for all their mills.  I would look for one of the newer models though.  Also, one with the fixed or remote head.   I'm getting tired of walking with the mill all day long.

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
Standard Hydarulic has 2 gal min hydraulic pump the Super has two pumps which adds up to 4 gal per min.
Large engines are usually on the Super. 35 Yanmar Diesels on both Super and Standard mills and the 47hp is only available on the super. There is a gas engine and electric available.
The forward feed and the up down motor and the gear box for up and down are larger to increase speed. You notice this is you are sawing a large stack of lumber and not removing the lumber. I call this through sawing not sure if this is a correct term but that is what I call it.
The Super comes with the board return with a motor to raise it, The return table also comes with. This is an option on the Standard mill. The Super also has the HSS kit as standard.

The Yanmar Diesels are working well, no issues. The first Yanmar diesels had a governor spring break ( I think I replaced one) The the Yanmar company revised this issue. No problems since.

Hope this helps
Marty

[customsawyer]

I have run the WM mills with the Kubota, Cat and the Yanmar. The Cat is the only one I had any troubles out of. The Cat also used a lot more fuel. The other two only burn about a gallon/hr.

[fishpharmer]

Welcome to FF!

Facing the same decision, I chose a used Super with diesel.

[Brucer]

As Marty pointed out, the main differences are the SHD has faster hydraulics, carriage speed, and head raise/lower functions. The largest motor option is bigger than on the basic hydraulic.

The Super also has a standard dragback arm that is raised or lowered by a motor. This isn't a big deal -- the basic mill has a non-motorized dragback, and you can even install the motorized one off a Super if you want (I did). The value of a dragback depends entirely on your operation. It's essential for my setup. Other owners have removed the dragback from their Supers because it didn't fit with what they were doing.

If I knew then what I know now, I'd go for a diesel. Their torque curve is better suited to sawing logs than a gas engine's torque curve.

Yanmar has been around for a long time. I have a 1982 4WD John Deere tractor that has a 3 cylinder diesel. It's still going strong.

Both my mills were bought new. I looked at used for my first mill (manual LT40). All I found at the time were a lot of lower-hour mills that had sat around for years -- but the price was always too high. I needed to buy my second (hydraulic) mill in a hurry so there was no time to shop for used. The people who bought my 1 year old manual got a heck of a good deal, though.

I bought my diesel edger used (from the dealer) and it has no issues. Normally I wouldn't have touched it because I won't buy used if the owner can't provide the manuals and maintenance records. But the engine had less than 40 hours on it and hadn't even got to its first service interval. It had obviously been kept indoors most of its life so I just couldn't pass up the chance.

[Tronvik]

I have a 1989 lt40hd and it is as fast as I want it. I most often run my mill alone. Just finished building my house, I milled all the pine floors and bead board walls, ceiling. It was great to have the hydraulics, my manual mill was fun too, ramp loading and turning logs changes it up and I don't get bored. Not saying milling is boring, but following the carriage all day long can work on you. If I was to buy another mill it would be a super though, debarker and two plane clamp sure would be nice too. Super or regular hydraulic it beats manual.

[Finn1903]

After many light sleeping nights thinking by the wood stove, visit to WM, local sawyer friends, pouring through the forum, reading posts and responses I have decided on a mill.  Going with the super and the diesel.
Getting my log yard set up, looking forward to cutting logs for the farm and maybe some side work.  Thanks for the advice!

[fishpharmer]

I am biased, good choice. 8)

[Magicman]

You can sleep  well now that you made a wise choice.     It is a decision that you will never regret.   

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

I just saw your note so I am a bit late, but the super is the best choice if you can afford it.

You might also consider incorporating with an LLC (under $300) to allow using Schedule C and then depreciating the cost of equipment.  An LLC also helps with limiting your liability in case of an accident or lawsuit.

[Finn1903]

Good point Gene on protection, the sawmill will be added under our farm LLC.
The farm will pay for operating, maintenace, insurance and interest.  I plan to do some work for others or sell some of what I cut to help pay for the mill.   

[Magicman]

My farm is an "LP" and it owns my sawmill which is an "'LLC".

[hunz]

I know this is a really old thread, and makes no difference to what mill should/ was purchased, but I wanted to correct something regarding what Gene said about LLC's and depreciation. You do NOT have to be incorporated to depreciate equipment. As a man who does his own taxes for 3 small businesses, I do it evey year. Any sawyer can operate under a sole proprietorship, and still have most all tax benefits corporations do. LLC's are a great idea in a world where no lawyer is twisted. I personally know 2 that have represented my family in numerous law suits, the consensus........the state just wants your money to incorporate as an LLC. The actual protection you receive from it against anyone seizing personal assets is nearly zilch if the defendant has a decent attorney. Your best bet is to carry a nice liability policy.

  I always find myself treating what I read on the web as gospel truth, something i always have to be careful of. I hope this helps some sawyer in the future stumbling across this thread to not get mixed up.

[dean herring]

As I sit by the fire enjoying my coffee looking at the forum. Notice that most of you have woodmizers. It will be a while before I buy a mill. I am not sure which to get so I need some direction.Thanks 3D lumber

[BBTom]

Dean, there is a reason why most seem to own WoodMizer.  We all did lots of research and ended up with the same answer.  If you want a machine that will last almost forever and a company that will give great customer service, you end up with orange.  There are other great sawmills out there, but WM ends up at the top of the pile with their near bulletproof machines and superior service. 

I am certain there are many 10,000 hour WM mills still sawing every day.  Mine is over 6000 hours and nowhere near the end of its life.  You may save a couple bucks purchase price going elsewhere, but after the purchase is when you learn the value of your machine.

[Sawyer697]

My son has a manual Lt 30, and He told me to run it and try it out, I ran a couple of logs thru it, and told him my mill would have Hyd. and off I went to Wood-Mizer. I have never been sorry! At my age. I still work mostly alone, except on the road, and then the owners, likes to work with me. Save your back, and use the Hyd.

[dean herring]

As I sit by the fire enjoying my coffee looking at the forum. Notice that most of you have woodmizers. It will be a while before I buy a mill. I am not sure which to get so I need some direction.Thanks 3D lumber

[thecfarm]

dean herring,should be some shows in your area. There is one coming to Maine in May. I always go to see the mills and all the other stuff. I looked for 20 years before I finally brought mine.

[hunz]

 

  Dean herring,
  Not that we are all Wood-Mizer salesmen on the forum, but I'll give you another reason to get one. I just finished sawing close to 5500 bd/ft for a customer this week. He offbeared almost every piece of lumber off of that mill himself. Anyway, he apparently had a portable sawyer at his place a few years back who had a four post mill(he doesn't remember the manufacturer). He made mention how aweful it was to pull lumber from the mill towards the end of the day with the 4 post head having to lean over to grab every board. With the WM bed design being trapezoidal, you don't have to do that. Another plus is that boards can be pulled off before the mill returns back to the front of the mill.... the cantilever design has more positives than negatives going for it for sure!

[Ga Mtn Man]

With the four-post mill I used to own I could lay a stout board across the sawhead carriage and use the hydraulically driven FWD/REV to push a fairly large cant or stack of boards off of either end of the mill.  I can't do that with my WM.  Just saying that each design has it's pros and cons .

[delvis]

We have a standard LT40 and I will admit there are times when two of us are working that I wish the hydraulics were a little faster, but not so often that I regret not having the Super.  Having faster hydraulics while working alone probably helps make up the time lost doing the work an off bearer would normally take care of. 

What I'd like to have is a mill just like the new LT70 Super, but priced in the LT40 range.  When you upgrade from an LT40 to a 70 you tack on at least 20 grand and considering the frames are the same etc, it's a pretty steep price hike for the differences you are getting.   

Something else that has sped my operation greatly is having the accuset setworks and the command control station.  Not having to do the sawdust shuffle means I get more work done more easily.

[dean herring]

Thanks BBTom. I am doing research too. Is it possible after years of sawing that the cantilever head will droop and not cut accurately. Is the 4 post design any better. Lots of money to spend so I want to make the right choice.