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Myths vs. Facts

Started by Ron Scott, January 05, 2002, 02:40:00 PM

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Ron Scott

Myth

We are running out of trees.

Fact

Nationwide there has been an increasing surplus in growth over harvest since 1952. The U. S. Forest Service inventory of Michigan indicates that we are harvesting only about 40% of annual forest growth.
~Ron

L. Wakefield

   What is the definition of that 40% figure? It could be, for example, that 40% of the neww seedlings are harvested. Of course I realize that is not at all what they mean, but how do they arrive at that figure? :P   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

timberbeast

LW,  that is inclusive of all trees deemed mechantible. 8)
Where the heck is my axe???

Ron Scott

Myth

At the time of European settlement pristine forests stretched almost unbroken from the Atlantic Ocean to the Great Plains, unaffected by humans.

Fact

Native Americans and nature had a heavy hand in the management of our forests with man-caused and natural fires and other natural disasters which left the forest cover in patches of trees and grassy openings in between.
~Ron

Ron Wenrich

The 40% figure is the volume growth of wood fiber usually in the sawtimber diameter classes.  In PA, we are growing trees twice as fast as we are cutting them.

You will have ingrowth, which are those trees that grow from poletimber into sawtimber.  This is where a great deal of the volume comes from.

You also have growth from trees going from one diameter class to the next.

This is offset against mortality and removals.

Another factor in volume is the amount of acreage available.  Since 1952, which was given as a base year, a lot of those abandoned farms have added to the amount timbered acres.  Much of this has now become sawtimber stands.  In 20 years, development and land fragmentation may reverse the trend.

I've seen some of these statistics, and although they are interesting, they have to be a little more detailed.  In PA, our fastest growing species volume is soft maple.  In some areas, red oak is decreasing in volume.  That indicates that high grading may be a problem.  Although volume has increased, it is in a lower quality species, at least in our area.

Usually the inventories are many years out of date.  The most recent data I have for our state is from an 1989 inventory.  I would be real interested to see what a newer inventory shows after the past 10 years of logging pressures.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

swampwhiteoak

Myth
Forests are the lungs of the earth and produce all the oxygen we breathe.

Fact
Most of the oxygen in the earth is produced by phytoplankton in the ocean (over 80%).  Forests are useful as carbon sinks and absorbing pollutants, but are minor players in the oxygen cycle.

L. Wakefield

   Several of those details of what trees are growing how fast vs harvesting, and replacement timber- were discussed in the 2-year battle here over the 'Forestry compact' issue here in Maine- which has failed twice. Both sides seem to present biased and polarized, oversimplified views of the facts in order to sway the voters. There are more politics and heat in it than facts and light. The author of the twice-failed amendment is now running as a green candidate for governor. I fear he will NOT get my vote. >:(  lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Ron Scott

Myth

All clearcutting is bad.

Fact

Nature's "clearcuts" (fires, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.) were nature's way of managing most ancient forests. Notable exceptions were western hemlock and white fir in the West and northern hardwoods in the East. The forest conditions that preservationists would like to return to were shaped by these forces. Clearcutting and prescribed fire have helped to save Kirtland's warbler nesting sites in Michigan.

~Ron

Ron Wenrich

If "all clearcutting is bad" is a myth, then would "all clearcutting is good" be a fact?

You have to watch how you phrase your myth or you open yourself up to some really bad questions.

The fact is that clearcutting can be good and clearcutting can be bad.  It depends where and why it is applied.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Tom

In a real world, a smart man should realize that the inverse of a falsehood is not necessarily a truth, nor is it necessarily a falsehood either.

I get a kick out of arguments I read in the paper or listen to on radio or TV where the premise is set at the beginning of the program or paragraph on which all the arguments are based throughout the article, with no consideration given for the validity of the premise.  There is so much time wasted by reporters who are editorializing about things of which they have no knowledge and who have set their own invalid premise.

One of my favorites is "Guns kill people so we should do away with guns so people won't be killed."  This is an invalid arguement,  but hours are spent defending it by people who are 'looking for a cause'.

Since "all clearcutting is bad"  then no tree that has found an existance in a crack in the sidewalk of a city should be cut. An arguement like that may have city dwellers looking for a roof over their heads before too long because the city would soon be a forest. Hmmmmm............ :D


RavioliKid

I wish people would stop arguing!

Most people would do well to listen a lot more and ask questions of people they think they disagree with - and then try to find some common ground.

I also wish people would stop running their mouths just to fill airtime on television.

It's almost enough to make me open up a book and read something!  :P
RavioliKid

Jeff

why a book Rav when we have the funny story thread right here? :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

I opened up a book recently......it was one of my wife's novels..........there was nothing in it. :-/ :D

Jeff

Myth
Tom reads his wife's Novels

Fact
Tom's wife does not write novels.

Tom if you want to read, try the book I told you was my favorite as a yungun.

My side of the Mountain
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

I plan to Jeff.  Hope it is geared for the 12 year-old mind.

timberbeast

This is actually a discussion about syllogisms,  no?
1.  Major premise:  Joe Blow's property was clear-cut
2.  Minor premise:  Joe Blow's land never grew another tree,  nor sustained any wildlife.
3.  Conclusion:  All clear-cutting is bad.

It's just a debate tactic used to refute true logic,  and ignores the facts of what Joe Blow did to his land after clear-cutting,  how it was managed previously,  what the optimum use for the land would be (and who that would be determined by),  as determined by modern forestry techniques (which may be proven wrong after we are gone),  and many other variables.  Without the benefit of knowing these other variables,  a true premise cannot be acheived,  save in merely epistemological terms.  I think that the Turkeys and Deer and Partridge on the state clear-cut across the line from me liked the clear-cut that was done there 10 or so years back.  So did the loggers and the lumber companies.  The "greenies"  wouldn't even know that it was clear-cut then,  they would drive past without noticing.  My premise,  if you will indulge me,  is that mankind IS a part of nature and does not have the power to destroy it as so many arrogantly claim.  We appoint ourselves as the caretakers,  as we should,  as the only rational beings on the planet.  Nothing has intrinsic value.  Value can only be determined by a being capable of the concept of value.  Geez,  I'm rambling now!   8) :D :D :D
Where the heck is my axe???

CHARLIE

[size=12]ALL COWS EAT GRASS.[/size]
 :o :P ???

Anytime any of y'all have a hard time knowing the truth, just ask me and I'll set you straight...cause you can trust me..............knowing that I only speak....THE TRUTH ;D
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

RavioliKid

Jeff,

My Side of the Mountain is one of my all-time favorite books, too! I read it to the kids every year!

 :P
RavioliKid

Tom

Do you think I would understand it, Rav, or is it over my head. :-/

Tom

I saw a horse eating grass today.  Does that mean ........that a horse is a ..............................Nah !!!, I don't buy that. :D

Ron Scott

Myth

Virgin Forests were ideal for all forms of wildlife.

Fact

Wildlife populations of most species are at an all-time high because of (not in spite of) timber harvesting and other forest management activities. Timber management tends to improve habitat for most wildlife.
~Ron

Tom

A discussion in a seminar I attended for Forestry Stewards lead me to believe that "old" forests that were heavily canopied and devoid of understory were unfriendly to wildlife.

Nothing to eat, nowhere to hide, no shelter from the elements, etc. as opposed to forests that were managed to produce openings, edges, food, snags and other shelter.

The second scenario seems a lot more friendly to me.

Ron Scott

Yes, though some wildlife species prefer old growth virgin forests as their primary habitat (such as the spotted owl), most prefer the diversity of managed forests for food, shelter, cover, etc. to maintain viable populations.  

Key words are "all" and "most". Conflicts over the use and management of our forests can largely be accounted for by the many myths that are accepted as facts by a large part of our population. A recent Newsletter of the Michigan Forest Association stated these Myths & Facts for information and education.

~Ron

Frank_Pender

Timber Beast,
   I had a nine hour course one  time in all this "stuff" and they were titled: Philosophy 101, Logic 101, Ethics 101.   When I finished, that which I thought I had learned, I hadn't.  That which I reasoned, I hadn't and that which I thought was moraly correct was in doubt.  :-/     After 30 years of teaching 12 year olds the following happened: That which I tought was learned, That which was reasonable for them was and that which doubtful no longer is.   I then went to full time sawmilling, logging and timber consulting and a strange thing happened.    Reality settled down, reasoning became simple, and right became the correct thing to do. 8) 8) 8)
Frank Pender

CHARLIE

I have to disagree withTom when he said, "A discussion in a seminar I attended for Forestry Stewards lead me to believe that "old" forests that were heavily canopied and devoid of understory were unfriendly to wildlife." :-/

I have to agree with Ron when he said, "some wildlife species prefer old growth virgin forests as their primary habitat"

Over on North Beach in Fort Pierce (Back in the 1960's there wasn't much housing over there), there were Australian Pines between A1A Highway and the ocean (This strip of "forest" was about 75 to 100 yards wide and was known as "The Pines").  There were a lot of bushes along the perimeter but when you got into the trees there was no understory, just a thick carpet of pine needles. It was sort of like walking into a big room. Even though it was heavily canopied and devoid of understory, I can attest that there was plenty of wildlife in there...........at least during my Junior College days.
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

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