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Log Tong Question - Finished w/ Pictures

Started by Cypressstump, November 13, 2012, 10:00:30 AM

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Cypressstump

What it the largest opening tongs commerically available that you may know of ?  I have a set that opens to 34"s, but I have located my next  'Nemisis' project it appears. I need a set that will grab a 5-6ft dia. log, or else seek other means.

I have some 1 1/4" cold roll steel bar available. I may be able to fabricate my own tongs for this one time use, they will not be used for overhead lifting. I can borrow a friends anvil to flatten the pivot point area and shape the shanks / hooks. I have 5/8" - 3/4" etc. shackles and a few rigging O-links and oblong links. Would cold water quenching provide sucifficent strengthening after heating and shapeing?

Thanks, Stump
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

clww

The biggest I have sounds like yours, opening of maybe 3 feet. What about cutting yours, then adding some steel in the middle to lengthen them? In turn, this would increase the opening. Are these for skidding or lifting? Another thing I have done in the past with the really big logs (48"+), is to put a long bolt into either side of the log, and attach a chain or cable to these. Have you considered using choker cables?
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

giant splinter

For the big logs I like the sliding chocker cable sling, mine is a 3/4" x 16' i have used it for logs of 5'+/- dia. without a problem. I also have the 5/8"x12' and use it for everything up to 3' including cants for off bearing from the mill and stacking or placing them.
U.S. Cargo Control has them up to 1" in wire rope.
roll with it

clww

One of the sponsors sells them, too-Bailey's.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

pineywoods

Stump, I make my own tongs, use a simple design that works well, can be made any size. Raw material is a tie rod off a big truck, heated and bent, not tempered. Notice the angle on the hooks, that's fairly critical. Grind the points sharp.



  

 
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

giant splinter

Baileys has a great selection of them and better pricing, thanks for pointing that out.
roll with it

Cypressstump

Thanks, I shoulda looked at Baileys, will do so shortly. I have located a log or tree of epic proportion, submerged. I will not be able to tell until i dive on it. I know it's worth pulling.A chain would be ideal, but not being able to get the chain under the mudded in log is an issue.Tongs are a must to at least for repositioning it for better grip.
I am in permitting process now, required by corp of engineering and DNR for retrieval issues.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

mad murdock

cable chokers are a lot cheaper, unless they won't work for your extraction method.  Also with chokers, you can double up.  Baileys sells chokers as well.  I bought mine from them, I have 8' and 12' chokers.  I also have a large set of tongs, which work ok for some things, but I like chokers for most skidding operations I do.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Cypressstump

I have various length cable chokers, but the log is mudded up, impposible to wrap a cable around unless I can lift one end above mud line.
clww - I thought of adding to my tongs, but hate to do so, big boy logs like this one don't happen often enought to warrent it, and these 34"s are my go to tongs 80% of the time.

Gotcha there pineywoods, I've modified an old set of shop built tongs for a friend once, his idea of changing the hook angle did not work, had to go back to more like factory angles.

Looks like I'll be filling the Oxygen / Acetylene bottles,  find my big rosebud,  borrow that Mondo Anvil of my friend, fill the cooler with sum' ice cold Corona's and give that 1 ΒΌ" cold roll a good Whupping.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Ironwood

Piney,

I like yours. I would also think that sway bar would make GOOD raw material too. High carbon (i think), and likely fairly stout.  Cool slowly after heating, less brittle. 

A while back someone here on FF had a huge set, I snatched them up as they were biggest I had seen. They are 40-45 lbs. and lift 36-40+" logs. Really old ones I have seen are sometimes HUGE. One friend has a pair that must go 100-125lbs.  :o

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

thecfarm

I want pictures of them BIG logs. Those must be wicked heavy.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

gspren

  Cold rolled steel can't really be hardened, just not enough carbon but that makes welding easier so if you bend in straight sections like Piney did you could get some flat stock maybe 3/8" X 1 1/2" and weld it to the outer shape to stiffen it up, just cut the ends at angles to match the bends.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

thenorthman

yup cold Rolled is probably mild steel and therefore under .018% carbon, you need to have at least .03% to begin hardening, and then not very well.  1 1/4 diameter is going to take a whole bunch of acetylene to heat it up, I have yet to see a rose bud big enough.  It needs to be very hot "all the way through" in order to start beating on it, most oxy-acetylene rigs don't have the umph to heat more than the outside.  If you don't have it hot enough it can start to crack on you and then you are back to the drawing board, especially around any tight bends.

Have you tried using a peavy to roll the log on to a choker? or jacking it a little bit. You only need an inch or two to fit a choker under there, and I would sure trust a choker over tongs any day.
well that didn't work

Weezer

How far down is it? Will tongs even work? You might have a couple inches of rot on it. Might be easier to lag bolt eyes to it. Good luck! You get props for going after it, I won't go anywhere there are things bigger than me with teeth.

clww

You may want to give Shelby Stanga a call. ;D He's down your neck of the woods, right?
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Fla._Deadheader


Had the same problem a couple of times. Went back with a water pump and bent pipe. Jetted the pipe under the log, then fished the cable under there.

I made some BIG tongs and straightened them out, a couple times. Used 1" Cold
Rolled steel.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Cypressstump

Well, I had typed a response and thought I had posted it ????? guess not..

The log is over 30 ft deep and will be mudded up at least a foot or so, can't use anything but tongs to get it off the bottom for repositioning and re-rigging with other rigging,com-a-longs, etc to the float raft frame.
I use a #12 rosebud with 300cf acetylene tanks and the 290cf oxygen tanks, the #12 will burn 175 cf per hour when roasting right..It'll get the rod cherry red in a few minutes.

thenorthman you make a very valid point on the cracking, especially when tring to make the sharp  hook point bends, I may opt for shaping the points separately and welding them on the legs of the tongs.
Piney, I wish I had easy access to  very long steering links like you have there, I recently replaced the one on my F350, but used it on another little venture. You advice on the right angle points is well taken. I plan to mirror the ones on my 34" set, will need to lay out a caulk line of a 5-6 ft dia on the concrete and see how the points will need to be angled for the best bite.
The tongs will only be used for pulling the log off the bottom and the sinker logs tend to be fairly buoyant as long as they are still in the water, getting them out, especially a big one is a horse of many other colors.... I am not equipped to handle this log out of the water,,, yet.
I want to get this one in my possession before someone else gets ahold of my intentions. Ones this big are rare anymore.
It's already costing me more than another to date, last night while doing some looking around on this one and a couple more, I lost either a rod or main bearing in my Mercury outboard motor. I have to spend the next few nights tearing that down for a look see.. :'(

Here's a picture of a little guy I pulled a few months ago, then Hurricane Isaac slammed me pretty hard, put a hold on all of my hobby pulling/milling.
The water is a bit colder now...

And yes, Shelby is nearby, 20 miles or so, I met him a couple times. He is the same in real life as on TV, NO put on there, a great guy, will give you the shirt off his back. But he'll get someone killed with the ratty rigging methods, and shining for the TV. He ran over his film crew ,he and them in boats, at the end of last season, 4 people hurt seriously, 1 very bad , all for drama / showing off for the TV audience. 
I find the log, get it permitted, mark it, bring my gear to it, dive on it, hook and book to the trailer, then mill. No time for stoopid stuff. That stuff hurts.

I will not be able to wash out as you describe Fla Deadheader,, too many regulations / and more costly permits to do that legally here.


Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Cypressstump

Plumb fergot to add,,,  - gspern - I gotcha, like adding strongbacks to each backside leg of the tongs. Very well may be a safe thing to do, Once I go to this log, I only want to make one trip and can't afford breaking my tongs .
You can tell in the picture above that the raft does not really support much weight  when the log is still in the water, that log pictures is rock solid, 22 ft long and the raft is floating only an inch or two deeper from normal unloaded freeboard. My 6000 lb forklift realized it had a load when i lifted the whole log off the trailer.
I already have two 5 ft pieces of the 1 1/4" rod, a 5"x 10" x 3/4" thick oblong ring and two 3/4" crosby shackles to make up the upper attachment ends.
On big ones, I find it's easier to grab one end, lift and free it from suction, then move it to the bank at a 90 degree angle to bank, which keeps it from laying flat on the bottom, or rolling deeper and makes the log stable for re-rigging in the middle for the push home.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

giant splinter

Stump
Stump now I see why the tongs are the ticket ...... especially for getting them out of the mud, gotta tell you that after running around on Lake Martin in a crayfish skiff on a swamp tour there is no way I would dive in that water <grin>. I have retrieved a few submerged logs and they are well worth the effort but we  (Ain't  got gators up here).
roll with it

thenorthman

There is another option... Don't remember what they are called but the really old codgers used em around here, they are basically the ends of tongs cut off and attached to a length of cable or chain, maybe able to find on ebay?  Stumble accross em from time to time in the woods around here, They used to use em to load the old growth around here but they stopped cause they were less then safe, underwater they shouldn't be as big an issue all ya need is a big winch and a big hammer to set em.  Could possibly cut a pair out some old rail road track maybe.  I try to find some pictures... but don't count on it my eenter nut conection is less than reliable
well that didn't work

thenorthman


Search for Warren log dogs in the forestry forum (ya know this forum...) about 2/3 down the thread there is a nice picture of em.  Good luck, and watch for toothy friends with crooked smiles
well that didn't work

Cypressstump

Splinter, small world ehh ?  One of my friends pulled a dang nice log from Lake Martin  ( if it's the same lake martin that's located in acension parish ),,,, it was 33 feet long, straight and true, 40-42 inches dia..... I was jealous, but glad for him. He got nearly 3000 feet of some of the finest oily red board out of that one log.

the gators do not worry me as much as big turtles do. Gators don't feed much down below, but the turtles like to lay around logs and such to ambush fish. Logs and debris make nice little cooridors for fish to travel along side, so turtles like to lay beside such things.
Can't see nothing after 3-4 feet below surface,completely blacked out, so your fingers / hands are the first part of the body to come into contat with such a tempermental critter whilst feeling around on the bottom.
yep northman, I've seen those single hooks, magicman uses a couple of those to move / reposition logs around his mill. thanks. If I can get tongs large enough, that would be the ticket hopefully as once they are set, I won't have to worry much about loosing bite.

I will pick up the anvil this evening or Sat am., I have fresh  oxygen / acetylene tanks waiting to pick up this evening. Found my big rosebud last night, now need to restock the beer cooler and gather up the earplugs and muffs... ;)
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

thenorthman

take a piece of 1/4 diameter or so stock and bend it into a rough u shape, then hang it through the pritchel hole (the little round hole next to the big square hole), cuts down on allot of the ringing from the anvil, if no pritchel than use the hardy hole (the square one), wear earplugs any way though, its those low tones that will destroy your hearing in a hurry with an anvil.  If you can set the anvil to where your knuckles just touch the top while holding your favorite hammer, to high or to low and it will destroy your shoulder, elbow, and or wrist.  Have fun swinging yer hammer, maybe get a friend/locale drunk to help swing a sledge?  Makes moving metal a little faster, and helps the time go by quicker ;D
well that didn't work

Cypressstump

Thanks for the tip on deadening some ear ringing.....as it is I already have tennitius pretty bad.

The more I look at that 1 1/4 rod, the more my arms already hurt. :-[
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

thenorthman

Last spring I pounded out some marlin spikes from 1" round stock (probably mild steel) even with a buddy and a 10 lb sledge it still took 2 1/2 days to make 2 of em,
and I have a coal forge to heat em up in(coal cost me .09 cents a pound and I burn about 40 lbs a year on lots of cazy projects), some day I will have a power hammer... that aside yer gonna need more beer... ;D
well that didn't work

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