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Log Tong Question - Finished w/ Pictures

Started by Cypressstump, November 13, 2012, 10:00:30 AM

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Cypressstump

What it the largest opening tongs commerically available that you may know of ?  I have a set that opens to 34"s, but I have located my next  'Nemisis' project it appears. I need a set that will grab a 5-6ft dia. log, or else seek other means.

I have some 1 1/4" cold roll steel bar available. I may be able to fabricate my own tongs for this one time use, they will not be used for overhead lifting. I can borrow a friends anvil to flatten the pivot point area and shape the shanks / hooks. I have 5/8" - 3/4" etc. shackles and a few rigging O-links and oblong links. Would cold water quenching provide sucifficent strengthening after heating and shapeing?

Thanks, Stump
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

clww

The biggest I have sounds like yours, opening of maybe 3 feet. What about cutting yours, then adding some steel in the middle to lengthen them? In turn, this would increase the opening. Are these for skidding or lifting? Another thing I have done in the past with the really big logs (48"+), is to put a long bolt into either side of the log, and attach a chain or cable to these. Have you considered using choker cables?
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

giant splinter

For the big logs I like the sliding chocker cable sling, mine is a 3/4" x 16' i have used it for logs of 5'+/- dia. without a problem. I also have the 5/8"x12' and use it for everything up to 3' including cants for off bearing from the mill and stacking or placing them.
U.S. Cargo Control has them up to 1" in wire rope.
roll with it

clww

One of the sponsors sells them, too-Bailey's.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

pineywoods

Stump, I make my own tongs, use a simple design that works well, can be made any size. Raw material is a tie rod off a big truck, heated and bent, not tempered. Notice the angle on the hooks, that's fairly critical. Grind the points sharp.



  

 
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

giant splinter

Baileys has a great selection of them and better pricing, thanks for pointing that out.
roll with it

Cypressstump

Thanks, I shoulda looked at Baileys, will do so shortly. I have located a log or tree of epic proportion, submerged. I will not be able to tell until i dive on it. I know it's worth pulling.A chain would be ideal, but not being able to get the chain under the mudded in log is an issue.Tongs are a must to at least for repositioning it for better grip.
I am in permitting process now, required by corp of engineering and DNR for retrieval issues.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

mad murdock

cable chokers are a lot cheaper, unless they won't work for your extraction method.  Also with chokers, you can double up.  Baileys sells chokers as well.  I bought mine from them, I have 8' and 12' chokers.  I also have a large set of tongs, which work ok for some things, but I like chokers for most skidding operations I do.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Cypressstump

I have various length cable chokers, but the log is mudded up, impposible to wrap a cable around unless I can lift one end above mud line.
clww - I thought of adding to my tongs, but hate to do so, big boy logs like this one don't happen often enought to warrent it, and these 34"s are my go to tongs 80% of the time.

Gotcha there pineywoods, I've modified an old set of shop built tongs for a friend once, his idea of changing the hook angle did not work, had to go back to more like factory angles.

Looks like I'll be filling the Oxygen / Acetylene bottles,  find my big rosebud,  borrow that Mondo Anvil of my friend, fill the cooler with sum' ice cold Corona's and give that 1 ΒΌ" cold roll a good Whupping.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Ironwood

Piney,

I like yours. I would also think that sway bar would make GOOD raw material too. High carbon (i think), and likely fairly stout.  Cool slowly after heating, less brittle. 

A while back someone here on FF had a huge set, I snatched them up as they were biggest I had seen. They are 40-45 lbs. and lift 36-40+" logs. Really old ones I have seen are sometimes HUGE. One friend has a pair that must go 100-125lbs.  :o

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

thecfarm

I want pictures of them BIG logs. Those must be wicked heavy.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

gspren

  Cold rolled steel can't really be hardened, just not enough carbon but that makes welding easier so if you bend in straight sections like Piney did you could get some flat stock maybe 3/8" X 1 1/2" and weld it to the outer shape to stiffen it up, just cut the ends at angles to match the bends.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

thenorthman

yup cold Rolled is probably mild steel and therefore under .018% carbon, you need to have at least .03% to begin hardening, and then not very well.  1 1/4 diameter is going to take a whole bunch of acetylene to heat it up, I have yet to see a rose bud big enough.  It needs to be very hot "all the way through" in order to start beating on it, most oxy-acetylene rigs don't have the umph to heat more than the outside.  If you don't have it hot enough it can start to crack on you and then you are back to the drawing board, especially around any tight bends.

Have you tried using a peavy to roll the log on to a choker? or jacking it a little bit. You only need an inch or two to fit a choker under there, and I would sure trust a choker over tongs any day.
well that didn't work

Weezer

How far down is it? Will tongs even work? You might have a couple inches of rot on it. Might be easier to lag bolt eyes to it. Good luck! You get props for going after it, I won't go anywhere there are things bigger than me with teeth.

clww

You may want to give Shelby Stanga a call. ;D He's down your neck of the woods, right?
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Fla._Deadheader


Had the same problem a couple of times. Went back with a water pump and bent pipe. Jetted the pipe under the log, then fished the cable under there.

I made some BIG tongs and straightened them out, a couple times. Used 1" Cold
Rolled steel.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Cypressstump

Well, I had typed a response and thought I had posted it ????? guess not..

The log is over 30 ft deep and will be mudded up at least a foot or so, can't use anything but tongs to get it off the bottom for repositioning and re-rigging with other rigging,com-a-longs, etc to the float raft frame.
I use a #12 rosebud with 300cf acetylene tanks and the 290cf oxygen tanks, the #12 will burn 175 cf per hour when roasting right..It'll get the rod cherry red in a few minutes.

thenorthman you make a very valid point on the cracking, especially when tring to make the sharp  hook point bends, I may opt for shaping the points separately and welding them on the legs of the tongs.
Piney, I wish I had easy access to  very long steering links like you have there, I recently replaced the one on my F350, but used it on another little venture. You advice on the right angle points is well taken. I plan to mirror the ones on my 34" set, will need to lay out a caulk line of a 5-6 ft dia on the concrete and see how the points will need to be angled for the best bite.
The tongs will only be used for pulling the log off the bottom and the sinker logs tend to be fairly buoyant as long as they are still in the water, getting them out, especially a big one is a horse of many other colors.... I am not equipped to handle this log out of the water,,, yet.
I want to get this one in my possession before someone else gets ahold of my intentions. Ones this big are rare anymore.
It's already costing me more than another to date, last night while doing some looking around on this one and a couple more, I lost either a rod or main bearing in my Mercury outboard motor. I have to spend the next few nights tearing that down for a look see.. :'(

Here's a picture of a little guy I pulled a few months ago, then Hurricane Isaac slammed me pretty hard, put a hold on all of my hobby pulling/milling.
The water is a bit colder now...

And yes, Shelby is nearby, 20 miles or so, I met him a couple times. He is the same in real life as on TV, NO put on there, a great guy, will give you the shirt off his back. But he'll get someone killed with the ratty rigging methods, and shining for the TV. He ran over his film crew ,he and them in boats, at the end of last season, 4 people hurt seriously, 1 very bad , all for drama / showing off for the TV audience. 
I find the log, get it permitted, mark it, bring my gear to it, dive on it, hook and book to the trailer, then mill. No time for stoopid stuff. That stuff hurts.

I will not be able to wash out as you describe Fla Deadheader,, too many regulations / and more costly permits to do that legally here.


Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Cypressstump

Plumb fergot to add,,,  - gspern - I gotcha, like adding strongbacks to each backside leg of the tongs. Very well may be a safe thing to do, Once I go to this log, I only want to make one trip and can't afford breaking my tongs .
You can tell in the picture above that the raft does not really support much weight  when the log is still in the water, that log pictures is rock solid, 22 ft long and the raft is floating only an inch or two deeper from normal unloaded freeboard. My 6000 lb forklift realized it had a load when i lifted the whole log off the trailer.
I already have two 5 ft pieces of the 1 1/4" rod, a 5"x 10" x 3/4" thick oblong ring and two 3/4" crosby shackles to make up the upper attachment ends.
On big ones, I find it's easier to grab one end, lift and free it from suction, then move it to the bank at a 90 degree angle to bank, which keeps it from laying flat on the bottom, or rolling deeper and makes the log stable for re-rigging in the middle for the push home.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

giant splinter

Stump
Stump now I see why the tongs are the ticket ...... especially for getting them out of the mud, gotta tell you that after running around on Lake Martin in a crayfish skiff on a swamp tour there is no way I would dive in that water <grin>. I have retrieved a few submerged logs and they are well worth the effort but we  (Ain't  got gators up here).
roll with it

thenorthman

There is another option... Don't remember what they are called but the really old codgers used em around here, they are basically the ends of tongs cut off and attached to a length of cable or chain, maybe able to find on ebay?  Stumble accross em from time to time in the woods around here, They used to use em to load the old growth around here but they stopped cause they were less then safe, underwater they shouldn't be as big an issue all ya need is a big winch and a big hammer to set em.  Could possibly cut a pair out some old rail road track maybe.  I try to find some pictures... but don't count on it my eenter nut conection is less than reliable
well that didn't work

thenorthman


Search for Warren log dogs in the forestry forum (ya know this forum...) about 2/3 down the thread there is a nice picture of em.  Good luck, and watch for toothy friends with crooked smiles
well that didn't work

Cypressstump

Splinter, small world ehh ?  One of my friends pulled a dang nice log from Lake Martin  ( if it's the same lake martin that's located in acension parish ),,,, it was 33 feet long, straight and true, 40-42 inches dia..... I was jealous, but glad for him. He got nearly 3000 feet of some of the finest oily red board out of that one log.

the gators do not worry me as much as big turtles do. Gators don't feed much down below, but the turtles like to lay around logs and such to ambush fish. Logs and debris make nice little cooridors for fish to travel along side, so turtles like to lay beside such things.
Can't see nothing after 3-4 feet below surface,completely blacked out, so your fingers / hands are the first part of the body to come into contat with such a tempermental critter whilst feeling around on the bottom.
yep northman, I've seen those single hooks, magicman uses a couple of those to move / reposition logs around his mill. thanks. If I can get tongs large enough, that would be the ticket hopefully as once they are set, I won't have to worry much about loosing bite.

I will pick up the anvil this evening or Sat am., I have fresh  oxygen / acetylene tanks waiting to pick up this evening. Found my big rosebud last night, now need to restock the beer cooler and gather up the earplugs and muffs... ;)
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

thenorthman

take a piece of 1/4 diameter or so stock and bend it into a rough u shape, then hang it through the pritchel hole (the little round hole next to the big square hole), cuts down on allot of the ringing from the anvil, if no pritchel than use the hardy hole (the square one), wear earplugs any way though, its those low tones that will destroy your hearing in a hurry with an anvil.  If you can set the anvil to where your knuckles just touch the top while holding your favorite hammer, to high or to low and it will destroy your shoulder, elbow, and or wrist.  Have fun swinging yer hammer, maybe get a friend/locale drunk to help swing a sledge?  Makes moving metal a little faster, and helps the time go by quicker ;D
well that didn't work

Cypressstump

Thanks for the tip on deadening some ear ringing.....as it is I already have tennitius pretty bad.

The more I look at that 1 1/4 rod, the more my arms already hurt. :-[
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

thenorthman

Last spring I pounded out some marlin spikes from 1" round stock (probably mild steel) even with a buddy and a 10 lb sledge it still took 2 1/2 days to make 2 of em,
and I have a coal forge to heat em up in(coal cost me .09 cents a pound and I burn about 40 lbs a year on lots of cazy projects), some day I will have a power hammer... that aside yer gonna need more beer... ;D
well that didn't work

Cypressstump

I have a new found respect for Blacksmiths ! It's no wonder that every western movie depicts the blacksmith as a pretty huge man of which no one seems to ever mess with, successfully. The image of Popeye  w/ huge forearms also floats around in my feeble mind as well.

I have finished my effort on the anvil. I took 10 inches of the 1 1/4" round stock down to a uniform 3/4" thick section for the 'sissor' area of the tongs. At the end of the day Sat. I was arm cramping so bad, I thought a couple times the Corona bottle in my hand would burst, ::)
I started with a 6lb mall,,, yeah, so much for ego and yesteryear... quickly went to a 4lber by days end was looking for a 1/2 lber... >:(
Working by myself did not allow for  double handed full swings, one hand on the rod ,other on the 4lb mall wore me down.
My fresh 300 cf acetylene tank now reflects less than 80 psi. now. The Rose bud was working.

Everything I do causes another job it seems. Once the 'smithing' was done, I now need to get the strongback material, 3/4" plate, for reinforcing the tongs. My gas welding machine  has not been used in a couple years, I now have to rebuild the carb before i can weld the strongbacks on. My wirefeed will not cut it on the 3/4" material. Spent Sunday afternoon cleaning out the fuel system of the gas machine, but got her running, sortov'

more beer......
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Cypressstump

Here's where it started......



One attempt of uniform flattening upper end on tong.......


Here's what I'm trying to put together, still a ways to go, but getting there.....


I would insert a pic of the pile of empty beer bottles consumed during the effort so far, but ya'll never believe all the empties were from just one tired guy..... ;D
Hate to jinx myself, but had'nt even burned a pinkie,,, yet.

The little 'kiln' I started with took too much time from heating to whooping, loosing time during setup etc.,so all later heating took place off the end of the anvil.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

thenorthman

nice work,  I woulda thought the "kiln" idea could save some fuel though.

Lots of times a guy can get more work done with a smaller easier to swing hammer, rather than standing back and wailing for all hes worth and tiring out in 2 hours...

More heat makes the job go a little faster too

I started pounding on a sword when I was 12 or so, just using the occasional brush pile and a small squirrel cage fan, Made it a bout 8" in the next 8 years...
Then I bought some coal and cut up my uncle's 12" wide wheel for his jeep (he was upset...) 2 hours later it was nearly done when it burned in half from too much heat, I managed to save most of it but still have not finished that project, I've been using coal ever since, its cheap stores well, a guy can forge weld with it, not so much with propane or a rosebud, it is kinda messy though.
well that didn't work

Cypressstump

When I still lived in New Mexico, there was a blacksmith/farrier that kept my horses and mule shod. He had a shop at his house that was simply awesome. He did all sorts of works of art with his abilities. Horse shoeing was second nature as he was a 3rd generation farrier.
His shop had a foot pump bellows with a coal fired forge that would run you out on a cold day if he wished to do so. The deft hand and years of experience shined in everything he produced. He'd turn out hinges, and brackets that were identical to each other in size, quickly too... Some folk art he made went for high dollar.
The anvil he had was generation old, probably 350 lbs or so.
The one I wanted t oborrow for my little job was a 200lber, but I could not load it by myself. The larger one had some 'keeping clamps' that would have helped me a lot by being that third hand when needed.

If ever I had a need for much use, the coal would be the way to go for certain.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Cypressstump

Well,
Got the tongs well on their way , doing well till I spent all of last weekend rebuilding the front axle on my F350 4x4. My goodness Ford is proud of their replacement 'Hencho en Mexico' parts....... >:(

I now ablsoutely have to finish the tongs in the next several days as my latest permit for retreiveing the logs is being completed today per the Corp of Engineer contact...  8) 8)

As luck would have it, I need to work my dayjob all weekend, so that sucks. It just never stops.

Stump
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Ironwood

 :o :o Them's SOME tongs.


Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

shinnlinger

 
These are the two piece units that Northman was referring to.  they used to use for loading redwoods and other large logs onto trains and what not.  I found them in a scrap pile on an old farm in Oregon and for some reason brought them with me on my move back here to NH
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Cypressstump

Well,
It's taken longer than expected to get the tongs finished. Too much else to do it seems.
I have them pretty much finished and still dealing with the Corp of Engineers and DNR , La. State on my next log retrieval permits, one last step to go they say.

I hammered down the upper ends of the 1 1/4" bar stock to a 3/4" uniformed flasttened thickness, then welded onto the sides some 3/4" x 1' flat stock to provide meatier upper top ends at the pivot area. Added full length 1/2" x 1" flat bar for reinforcement strongbacks.



The pointy ends have reinforced corners-



They gonna be a mite on the bulky /heavy side -



They should be wide enuff too   ::)  -





These tongs will be used for pulling mudded up logs from the bottom of the riverbeds here. I have located some huge ancient sinker cypress logs that I think are 5-7 feet dia.. These would be the very old growth ones, not found too often anymore.
There's been stories as long as I can remember of someones great grandfather who road the rafts of logs to market, and the sinkers falling out or being dropped in certian areas due to those heavy logs sinking out of the raft float. Those stories were passed down from those family members with intentions of someone, even the timber company going back after them one day. I believe that I have found such a log or two.

I made this set large enough that while down on the bottom 40 ft or so, I should not have much difficulty in getting the tongs around the log and getting them to bite on the (hopefully) first attempt. These are heavey enough to where I can sink them into the mud a few feet with ease, instead to the normal wrestling match with lesser weight/smaller tongs. They can be used on smaller logs as well. I will mainly use these to move the log to shallower water to reset the rigging from the tongs to chain for the float trip home with the log. Gonna be a small chore I think, but well worth it in the long run if all goes at least 1/2 way to plan.... :D
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Leigh Family Farm

With those suckers you would need to fully inflate your BCV just to slow your descent! Good luck and stay safe!
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

clww

Nice job on those BIG tongs!
I want to see a picture of them picking up a Honda or an Escort off the ground by the roof with the forklift. :D
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Fla._Deadheader


Yer gonna need a bigger trailer, Pilgrim.  ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D

We heard about some over 10' dia. but, right after, my wife passed away and we gave up the recovery stuff. Just lost interest in working anymore.

Patiently waiting to see the big logs. Don't let them tongs get on ya down that deep.  :o ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Cypressstump

Very sorry to hear of your Wife passing Fla._Deadheader My condolences to you bud.

Those old tales of the big ones always intrigued me as well as many others I'm sure. I found this big one while looking for a very nice log I lost over 25 years ago. I found the one I lost, I actually dropped anchor right dead on top of it, one of my remaining few brain cells  must still possess some homing instincts.... The big one was right next to it a few feet away while I was determining how large the one I lost was.
The thing is, If that big log is still fairly solid, there is nothing I have that can pull, lift, drag it from the water at the moment. I will float it to my property and chain /lock it off until I can deal with it.
That's one reason for the super-sized tongs. Where that log is located, there are waterfront homes nearby. If I cannot successfully pull the thing (with smaller tongs, etc.,), word will spread down here like wildfire. I have already submitted my permit applications, but others are not so willing to play by the rules..
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Stephen1

I have a question, if you can only see 3-4 ft in the murky water how are you finding these logs at 40 ft and in the mud?
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Cypressstump

From surface to 3-4 feet down, the water is like black strained, no real visibility, but sunlight will penatrate enough to partically illluminate. Below 3 feet on most days it's pitch black. I now have some electronics that help locate some of them if they are above the mud line. There are old pull runs thru the swamp that lead to the rivers edge all along the rivers, if you know what they are and what they look like. Many times where the pull runs enter the river, heavy logs that were not gridled corrected prior to felling, sink there or not far down river.  Sometimes we use 20-25 ft long 3" dia. wooden poles to probe the bottom out of a boat, in deeper waters, it takes bottom time with a lot of weight to enable you to 'walk' on the bottom. Sometimes the bottom is all silt where you'll sink up to your knees / lower thighs, other places there is good clay bottoms. When in silt, I use my feet and usually take a 4-5 ft section of cane to probe out away from my body, into the silt, helps cover more ground. the cane can also be used to fend off the "Mud Monsters", as they are called... ;)  figments of ones' imagination. ;D ;) there's plenty of mud monsters if you let your mind wander too much.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Stephen1

Mud monsters, in sloppy bottoms,  :o, not my favourite.lol
Can hardly wait to see that log
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

thecfarm

WOW!! Got that thing in the water and start pulling. Now that's a weapon.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Fla._Deadheader

 Thanks Cypresstump. That was 9 years ago. Where DOES the time go ??

There is a story I wrote in the archives about River lizards.

LINK

I especially loved it when you were diving near a bend in the river, and, eventually got in the edge of the hole created by water currents, and started sliding down into the hole. Never knew where you would end up. Could be you ran into a sunken tree with broken branches sticking out, ready to stick you in the face or rip off the dive mask, or, get caught up in abandoned trot lines, left years ago by the locals that had fish and crab pots strung along the river bottom.

As you slid down into the hole, the water got colder and colder as you went through thermoclines. It seemed like you were sliding for minutes to 100' depths, when it was 40-50' and a few seconds  :o ;D

We had several old timers stories we ran into. One was a whole raft of logs went down, as the raft get tangled up in the railroad bridge. Estimates were "enough logs to make a fellow rich". Currents were near impossible to stay on the bottom at 35' depth, to feel around for logs. Also had a large underwater cable, so, no anchoring within 100' each side of the bridge.

Another story about a 5000' log, that's bd/ft  ;D, that had 3 launchs tied to it, pulling for 3 days, and never raised the first bubble. REALLY wanted to find that log, but, it was in the "Bombing Range" in the lake, and, off limits.  ::)

I miss that diving job. It was always something different, whether hearing the Bull gators roaring during breeding season, or moron bass boaters doing 60 MPH up the river and around blind curves, where I called them out more than once, to get their butt busted. OR, hooking onto a log, and pulling the boat so low in the water that water spilled in over the transoms.

Good Luck on those big logs cypresstump.  8) 8)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

thenorthman

have fun with the state, and permit jerks...

I think I'm gonna stick to cuttin em down and and sending em to the mill, its hard enough on semi dry land, let alone under water with poor visability
well that didn't work

Cypressstump

I feel ya, Fla_Deadheader, you never know what to expect. I don't mind the gators, but them snapping turtles kinda spook me, when you feel one's shell, ya never know too soon which end eats and which end has the tail on it. Don't care for them Trotlines, garbage and the worst of them all is abandoned trammel nets either. I had to remove my bc once underwater, sitting on bottom with the tank trying to float off and cut off all the fine mesh netting of a trammel net once. I could not reach the back side where the netting had me hung up on a tree top.
These tongs are too heavy to fool with underwater, believe me, I plan on respecting them in a grand manner!
I plan on lowering those tongs via winch once I have dove and anchored to the log itself. Then position the tongs on the log for pulling. My previously other largest tongs open about 34-36 inches and weigh around 40 pounds. I would use that tong weight as an anchor,drop it to the bottom, attach a lifeline from the tong line to my BC with a 20 ft nylon rope, drop to the bottom teathered off to the 'anchor line', grope around and find the log, then plant my feet or straddle the log , pull the tongs to me. I'd then attach tongs to log and clip a little Yellow float( located on my left shoulder of BC) to the winch/tong line and let it go. Once the man on top saw the little float come to surface, he'd tighten up the winch line till nice and snug. If something went wrong, I have a RED float attached to my right shoulder of BC. When that RED one surfaces, the man on top releases the winch line tension. If needed, I always strap on two knifes to me that will cut the winch line in a hurry,  it's synthetic rope, not steel cable.
As soon as my permits come in, I'm ready, got a dry suit for the cold water, but will need to find a swimming pool first to establish how much additional weight will be needed with the dry suit. The dry suit is 7mm, lot more floatation equals more weight.I already use 35 lbs with my normal full wet suit, but it's 3mm's.

Yeah,, thenorthman, they all lined up wanting money. it's very time consuming with those permit folks.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Fla._Deadheader


We had a little different system, but, it all works out the same.

I'm just over 200# right now, but, was about 185 when we did the logging. I wore 45# with NO BC, just the hard tank bracket. Can't even remember what it's called.  ::) ::)  Back pack, maybe  ???

Didn't like the BC because of the stuff hanging off of it, like, extra regulator, tank pressure gauge, pockets etc. If we had a problem, dump the whole thing and surface. We had extra gear if we needed to recover stuff.

My son got tangled in 11 trotlines tangled in a free drifting tree. I had just put the tank on and was about to go after him, when he popped up. If the bubbles don't move, I study what I can, and go from there.

It WAS a neat project though.  8) 8) :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

mikeb1079

at risk of hijacking this thread how did you guys get involved in the diving/salvaging of logs? 

surely i can't be the only one who is fascinated by this!
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

Fla._Deadheader


I was involved in several forms of Treasure Hunting before getting into the sunken log recovery. It evolved from searching for other things in the rivers.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

mikeb1079

QuoteI was involved in several forms of Treasure Hunting before getting into the sunken log recovery. It evolved from searching for other things in the rivers.

ahhh...interesting.  is there a forum on here for treasure hunting stories?   :D 

so you would try to locate a log, saw and sell?
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

beenthere

How about the General Forum if the Logging Forum isn't ok?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Migal

 :D
Quote from: mikeb1079 on December 28, 2012, 08:58:15 PM
at risk of hijacking this thread how did you guys get involved in the diving/salvaging of logs? 

surely i can't be the only one who is fascinated by this!

No No Im sure I'm not reading every word let alone some twice Just trust me on that and keep the Post's coming Cypressstump

err not that I would simply love to hold your corona while you dive LOL
Stihl learning and picked up my Log Master LM2 Cat 34hp 02 21 12! 230MF+ the toys that go with it! MS361 MS271 Stihl PB500 Echo 48" LogRite 16ft Bass Tracker Pro' Abua Garcia 5600 bait caster, Wood working equipment' Lake Lot never enough time! oh don't forget the fridge with ale! Loving Wife Rebeca

Cypressstump



....."at risk of hijacking this thread how did you guys get involved in the diving/salvaging of logs? "



Growing up where I have, there have always been logging relics, tales, old mill sites, the stump reminents of giant ancient trees, the history of the logging in the swamps which had logging railroads built thru the swamps, etc. all this intrigued me to great extents. My great grandfather, Levi Garrison, built a home out of all cypress, from singles to sills. It stood for many a year , weathered many a storm until left empty after my great grandparents passed away. As old homes do when not lived in, they too pass on. My uncles used to pull a few sinkers for building needs. Early on, to see a log go from a tree trunk to board, to a building was pretty neat to me in a kids perspective. I am modeling a home somewhat like the old house Grandpaw Levi had.
When I pulled my first sinker log and had it sawn into 4/4 boards, I was hooked. They used to be far easier to locate, but now days the fad has caught on due to the TV shows, they are harder to locate and claim. But the deep ones separate most seekers from the hard core ones.
Just the history of the swamp Cypress logging down here is an amazing feat within itself.

So to answer your question Mikeb1079,  overall exposure to the old logging history and the allure of what resides inside them old sinker logs is what got me hooked. Once when asked why I like to do this for fun, my reply was that I have an obsession coupled with an addiction of being a sinker cypress junkie. And I only scratch the surface of what some of the really hard core guys that rely on the sinkers for a living around here.  I really only tinker with it. A part time junkie I reckon.... ;D




Some colorful boards



Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Migal

 :D Boy they sure could have used one of those new tele handlers!  8) nice pics
Stihl learning and picked up my Log Master LM2 Cat 34hp 02 21 12! 230MF+ the toys that go with it! MS361 MS271 Stihl PB500 Echo 48" LogRite 16ft Bass Tracker Pro' Abua Garcia 5600 bait caster, Wood working equipment' Lake Lot never enough time! oh don't forget the fridge with ale! Loving Wife Rebeca

fishpharmer

Cypressstump, thanks for sharing the fascinating old pictures.  Having done a little recovery diving myself, along with the beautiful product, I can understand the attraction of taking on such an adventure.

And those log tongs, WOW!  I don't see why they won't do the job. Well done.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

thecfarm

Cypessstump,that was a nice post about yourself. Good job.
That last picture,looks like the logs are on a track,like a railroad?? Being pulled by a ??
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Magicman

Congrats Cypressstump on your progress.

This preparation and tong building has been a fascinating trip, so now we all wait for the journey.  Hopefully the permits will soon be approved and the salvage operation can begin.   smiley_thumbsup
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Cypressstump

Thanks guys,

thecfarm, those rails were built all throughout the swamps down here, that picture is one nearer the millsite, which is higher and drier. They used standard guage steamers built from 1890's and up. this picture is of a steam locomotive built in 1914, and was used locally down here..... I wuz gonna spin a tale about Alligator power,, but, nawh.. ::)



These old boys were paid up to 1.50$ per 10 hour day.

Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

markd

I was thinking the same thing but have you ever tried to swing a big hammer under water?
markd

mikeb1079

thanks for the informative post cypress.  i love those old pics.  shows you how creative and hardworking them old boys (and gals) were.  cheers!
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

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