iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Lake Huron is teasing me.

Started by Jeff, November 10, 2012, 04:16:58 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jeff

Due to extremely low water levels in Lake Huron, one of the bays just a few minutes from the cabin, that is just around a point from an old mill site, is now exposing some of its deadhead logs. I've been told by a  local diver, that the deep water there is littered with lost logs that are occasionaly coughed up into the shallows if you get a bad enough storm from the right direction.  Shame there is no quick route to a legal way to go get them.  That bottom there is hard pack and you could easily get them with a logrite arch. Oh Well. Its an interesting view. The photo should expand if clicked on.



 

http://youtu.be/eC4k5w_blJ0
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

wheelinguy

So, why is it illegal to get them?  State law? Federal? 

Jeff

State to begin with.  Most every state has laws pertaining to the salvage of logs from waterways or bodies of water.  By the time a guy jumped through all the hoops required to legally retrieve them, Lake Huron will have taken them back.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Fla._Deadheader


QuoteLake Huron will have taken them back.

Don't bet on it. First, the aquafir that supplies the LAKES, has been tapped by a foreign country, and they are bottling and selling that water. NOTHING is sacred in the USA, or, the world, except money.

Second, who has tried, lately, to get the DNR to take another look ??

A couple years after we quit, and I moved down here, many LAKES in Fl. were opened up, that were absolutely prohibited to recover logs, when we tried to get lakes opened up. With that shallower water being still navigable, the State has new liability issues if some jerk tears around and crashes into a "semi-submerged hazard to navigation".  What you show in that photo MAY get partially covered, or, carried out to be semi-covered, and cause injury.

Maybe visit the DNR in person, with photos and try to get them to open their eyes.

We were told they were "fish habitat". What fish lives under covered logs ??
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

shelbycharger400

The first question is how many of them are their, and are they decent sized, 10 in dia and larger?  Laying in shallows could be degraded to pointless.  Now I could use some "drift wood" for some mantles :)

Jeff

Those logs were not there a month ago. They may not be there tomorrow as we are getting quite a big wind and rain storm right now. The same bay coughed up some logs a couple years ago, but were still have submerged. I looked close at it then. Just last year there was an initiative started by State representative Greg_MacMaster to make underwater logging in Michigan achievable. it stalled and failed in the state senate. He had even come here to try and drum up some ideas. He wanted me to go to Lansing, but gave me a days notice and it was impossible for me to attend.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,50689.20.html
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Quote from: shelbycharger400 on November 10, 2012, 07:11:33 PM
Laying in shallows could be degraded to pointless.

They are not.  Burlkraft and I hiked out into the water a couple years ago to look at some of them after a storm. About a week after that, another storm took them back out into deep water.  They are certainly worn, but solid. All the ends of them are rounded. We were looking for log marks, but found none.

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Wow, Time flies. That wasn't two years ago, it was 5 years ago.  I found the photos. You can see the difference in water level of the same bay.





Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

shelbycharger400

wow, that last photo has some wild grain!

now, comes the wonderful question,  if its on land beins not in water what would you need for a permit to collect them up even with an arch? Id like to know what the terms would be because its not underwater logging.


Jeff

The law states in part:

Part 326 of NREPA regulates the harvesting of submerged lakes from the bottomlands of the Great Lakes.  These logs are considered the property of the state.

It says nothing about underwater, and that land that is now exposed would certainly be classed as part of the Great Lakes bottom lands. That stansa does make it clear who the State considers the owner of such logs.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Clark

It seems that this sort of event happens with some regularity.  It might be worth obtaining the correct permits if they were valid for several years then when you do see some teasing you it would be a matter of grabbing your log arch and starting with the heavy lifting.  Of course, they might also have some stipulation for advanced notification of salvage operations in which case, it's a moot point.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

shelbycharger400

Now on the subject. the term Bottomlands,  would that be safe to assume as most of us would call it flood plain? and or including the former lake frontage area?
One lake I know of has nice birch trees on it, in the last 15 years its water line varys about 10 feet, it can and has been way down, and early this year was VERY high, over 8 feet higher than normal.
I have also noticed that legaly with the dnr some "lot lines" sometimes end at the lake shore, and your plat map line might be 15 feet underwater at sometimes. Its kinda a sketchy point.

The legal nighmare is just that, I do like that a lot here are very helpful in sharing what they know and help clear the path to saying the right things to the right people.
Those legal papers are very lengthy, I have read one from begining to end, it took a long time!
Reasons leading up to this is, I have done some research as to doing recovery in previously logged state forest not that far from me. Now I can obtain a permit from my county DNR, but I don't recall in the legal terms if it also applys to the river flood plain . It would be something in the future, It is  a implied 'firewood" collection, Id have to look it over again but it goes on to imply a personal use to the material but dosn't state that its clearly only to burn it.  I wouldn't have a problem using red oak for window trim if you get my drift.

gunman63

I was thinking  firewood permit  would be the  way to go also, maybe a drift wood  permit?, if there is such a  thing, gotta  think outside the box.

Jeff

The rules are pretty clear. They are logs, they are not driftwood, and they belong to the state. Taking them under any other guise would be theft.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

shelbycharger400

Here is a question to you Jeff
Now say you did a legal removal ect.
Now here in mn, if its a log stamped, a few companies bought up all the rights to quite a few stamps.  So if you bring up a log with "their" stamp, its their log.
Thats a real sour deal.  All the time , work and equipment to pull it up and boom...its not yours.

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

LOGDOG

Jeff... is this the State of Michigan's jurisdiction?

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

shelbycharger400

guess I missed it  :D
are they playing that game their too with the "bought up" tags.
Im not shure I will ever get into that game, their is a LOT more FREE logs than the hastle .

SPIKER

guess if you hit one of those LOGs with a TAG then you can get the company to reimburse for all repairs? ;D
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

sandhills


Thank You Sponsors!