WM LT10 Trailer build.

[OlJarhead]

 
Well the fun begins!  My son and I went up and disassembled the LT10 and brought it to the neighbors who will be making the trailer for the mill.

We're planning on making a 20 foot trailer that will be 6 feet wide with the sawmill down the center starting from 2 feet from the back and going to just over the tongue (about 12").  The last 12" of deck/bed will only carry the mill head if it is ever used so won't have to carry a log weight.  This saves a little in the design and build.

Basically, because of the way the LT10 is operated I had to keep 2 feet of 'working' space at one end for setting the head height and engaging the saw etc and had to have 2 feet of walk space to the left of the mill for me to be able to walk the head down to the end of the log.  Then on the right side of the mill there will be a 2 foot 'log deck' that the logs will be rolled onto from below (when using ramps and cant hooks or a winch) or placed onto (using a fork lift) and rolled onto the mill bed.

This also gives me some space to haul lumber or other things if and when I want to.

We're going with a 3500lbs axle and tires and will use trailer brakes (my neighbor feels that longer trailer, specially narrow ones, benefit from trailer brakes because it allows a way to control them if they start to get away from you -- and he's built trailers before while I haven't).

Basically the design is to have two 2x3 rails (channel) that run the length of the trailer with cross ties/bars welded to the bottom of the 2x3 channel.  The mill will then be placed on spacer blocks on the cross bars (to lift it off the deck for the clamps etc to have room to pass -- I don't see a need to lift it the 4" woodmizer has you lift it off the ground since it will be about 24" off the ground but it does need clearance on the rails for the head to pass when using the hooks that keep it from hopping off the rails --  which will place the deck about 2" above the main rails of the trailer.  Then I will place treated 2x6's along the log deck to give it a working surface that will be very close to the height of the log deck (slight below but that should be fine) and on the walk side it will be expanded metal.

We'll then place either 6 or 8 trailer jacks around the deck (2 each front and back and at least 2 in the middle) to level and support the trailer when in use.  These will be the type you rotate out of the way when not in use and have a 5000lbs capacity each.

Along the back we'll place a chain 'fence' to help prevent the operator (me) from accidentally falling off the back of the mill when operating it (don't laugh, I can see that happening) and somewhere have to put some means of easily climbing up onto it -- maybe just a step ladder for that -- and a place to store fuel, blades, tools etc.

At some point I'll probably want to place a 2000lbs winch in the center so we can winch logs up onto it and we'll have to make ramps for the logs as well as a toe kicker to lift the small end and perhaps a home made screw clamp to keep the logs from moving once in use (the woodmizer clamps aren't very good -- sorry guys).

The only real issue we have right now is that I don't have another section of LT10 bed and though we could probably make one I'm afraid it might be cheaper to buy one (anyone have a used on in WA or OR they want to sell? lol).

Anyway, so far that's the plan.

I'll try to get pictures as we go along and appreciate any and all feedback.
Erik

[OlJarhead]

One thing I'm already wondering, mind you, is if 2x3 channel will have too much flex in it and if I should go with a heavier channel like 2x4?

Mainly the flex issue would only be when driving down the road and the axle will be in the 60/40 position so in theory 2x3 should work right?  After all, when in use it will be supported in at least 6 locations with 5000lbs trailer jacks.

[thecfarm]

I have 2x4 under mine and I just flipped a 12 inch cant on it 14 foot,white pine with alot of help with my loader of my tractor. the sawmill liked it. I have no idea the added cost,but I would do it,if it wasn't some stupid high amount of green. I suppose you are going to keep it for years?

[Brucer]

Comparing the heaviest gauge standard channels: 4" x 7.25 lbs/foot has 50% more bending strength and twice the vertical stiffness as 3" x 6.00 lbs/foot.

Personally I like to use Hollow Structural Steel (HSS) because it has more stiffness in the side-to-side direction than standard channel. You pay the price, though, in more weight per foot for the same vertical stiffness.

[Woodchuck53]

I agree. I have built a large number of trailers for all sorts of applications and square tubing up front and be happy in the long run.
The question will be are you really going to keep the 10 or get the fever and up grade to a larger machine? I always ask the customer what he thinks will be hauled and what chance will he have of hauling something heavier.
Build to haul your lumber even if it is on the side of the mill green pine and oak are heavy. 2x5 side rails and 2x3 cross members with wood on your side and a pc. of fiber glass grating on the sawdust side and the jacks as mentioned and you will have what you need.
The only other thing I would do maybe is opt for a pair of lighter brake axles. Even used trailer house axles.
Just my thoughts.

[francismilker]

I agree with others.  The square tubing has a lot less bend to it than channel unless you get into some pretty thick, tall dimensions of it.  I've actually "pre-stressed" channel before while building a trailer out of it.  (was told later that I shouldn't have done it due to taking the needed flex out of it.)

I built a 4"x4" sq. tubing skid to go under my LT-10 and have plans to just build an axle on it's own small rectangular carriage that can be put under and bolted to the skid when I need to move.  I like the mill being low to the ground personally so I don't want it up in the air all the time.  When it comes time to move it, I'll jack up one end and roll the axle under, pin it one, and drag it away.

[OlJarhead]

If all goes well I won't keep the LT10 so this, with luck, will not be my permanent setup.

Of course, that assumes I get work with the mill and it pays enough to upgrade in the future.

So, the advice here is to go with square tubing rather then channel?  4" over 3"?

Thanks
Erik

[Ga Mtn Man]

Erik,
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're planning on operating the saw from the trailer deck.  I don't understand why you would do that vs. an LT-15GO type setup ??? 

[OlJarhead]

Erik,
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're planning on operating the saw from the trailer deck.  I don't understand why you would do that vs. an LT-15GO type setup ???

Not sure I understand -- isn't the LT15GO also operated on the trailer deck?

My intent is to build a trailer that the mill is mounted to and that I can then roll logs up onto in order to mill -- like the LT28's and bigger only using the LT10 as the mill.

The idea is to not have to do anything other then stop, disconnect the trailer from the truck, drop the legs to stabilize and support (and level) the mill and then get to milling.

Shorter set up and tear down times, greater mobility/portability and much easier to choose a spot to mill in.  Heck, I should be able to drag the mill to a spot near a fallen tree and limit the distance to the logs need to be dragged to get to the mill.

My experience to date is to set the LT10 up on the ground, level it, drag the logs over to it and load them up onto it and get milling.  It has taken a lot of time to get the mill in place and squared up/leveled etc before actual milling took place.

I understand a lot of guys have made trailers they can remove the axle from in order to drop the mill to the ground, and perhaps with a strong steel frame it wouldn't need to be squared up the same way a standard LT10 on wood beams does but it seems to me that operating the mill on the trailer would be the fastest way to go -- other then getting the logs onto the mill deck from the ground but I envision a winch to help with that if forks and strong backs aren't available ;)

[Ga Mtn Man]

It's the extra 2' on each side of the mill that has me perplexed.  If working from ground level, that's going to give you an awfully long reach to the log from either side.  The LT-15GO isn't set up that way:

http://www.woodmizer.com/us/Portals/1/products/manualSawmills/lt15GO/lt15_5.jpg

I'm not saying your idea is wrong.  I just don't get it.

[OlJarhead]

Oh, right!  The LT10 is different in that you walk beside the mill head when milling and need to be at mill deck height in order to lift/lower the head and operate the controls so I need a place to walk along the left side (the operator side of the mill).

The other side I decided to leave 18" of space (which I think we later made 24" to keep the deck width even) because it didn't matter much in operation, might even help, but will add functionality to the trailer (I could remove the mill or push the head forward and have a flatbead trailer to use to transport lumber or even ATV's etc.

Also the extra space on the log loading side of the mill gives a place to stand while rolling the log/cant on the mill with a cant hook.

The biggest issue I see is getting the log up onto the deck as the height will pose a problem in that you have to roll the log up about 24" along the loading ramps but I think if the ramps are like the LT15GO ramps (the ones with the flip out stays that keep the log from rolling backwards) then it shouldn't be a problem.

Erik

[francismilker]

Erik,
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're planning on operating the saw from the trailer deck.  I don't understand why you would do that vs. an LT-15GO type setup ???

Not sure I understand -- isn't the LT15GO also operated on the trailer deck?

My intent is to build a trailer that the mill is mounted to and that I can then roll logs up onto in order to mill -- like the LT28's and bigger only using the LT10 as the mill.

The idea is to not have to do anything other then stop, disconnect the trailer from the truck, drop the legs to stabilize and support (and level) the mill and then get to milling.

Shorter set up and tear down times, greater mobility/portability and much easier to choose a spot to mill in.  Heck, I should be able to drag the mill to a spot near a fallen tree and limit the distance to the logs need to be dragged to get to the mill.

My experience to date is to set the LT10 up on the ground, level it, drag the logs over to it and load them up onto it and get milling.  It has taken a lot of time to get the mill in place and squared up/leveled etc before actual milling took place.

I understand a lot of guys have made trailers they can remove the axle from in order to drop the mill to the ground, and perhaps with a strong steel frame it wouldn't need to be squared up the same way a standard LT10 on wood beams does but it seems to me that operating the mill on the trailer would be the fastest way to go -- other then getting the logs onto the mill deck from the ground but I envision a winch to help with that if forks and strong backs aren't available ;)

So you're planning on using the trailer as a walking/working platform?  Have you given any thought to having to get on/off the trailer with basically every cut to remove the boards you're cutting to stack them?  Or, are you going to build offload rollers to sit them on? 

Just trying to envision your build here, but I'd think that no more than the mill weighs and the maximum height capacity of the lt-10 being a 24" log, it wouldn't be too bad an idea to mount the mill far to one side of the trailer and work from the ground.  Then, you could have all the excess trailer on the loading side for loading and staging logs.  If you consider building a trailer that has a fold-down side rail, you could possibly use a 12v winch run off your pickup truck's battery for raising and lowering the side rail and use it as an electric log loader. 

This is one of those projects that a lot of pencil work could save you a lot of "I wish I would've" steps.  ???

I'm usually the one that jumps in with both feet and starts putting the cart before the horse is why I can so humbly give this advice.  Either way, I'm intrested in this topic because I plan on doing something mobile too.

[OlJarhead]

Hmmm...

OK you've thrown a wrench into the mix! lol  But I think I've got the answer!  8)

I have a hard time with KISS (keep it simple stupid) and you might have helped with that.  I went over to the neighbors shop where the mill sits on his trailer waiting to be measured etc for the trailer.  I showed him another picture of the LT15GO and posed this question:

"If I can operate the mill from the ground while it's on a trailer like the LT15GO is, then wouldn't that trailer be a lot less to build?"  His answer was, as you know "Of course".  He also laughed when I reminded him that I tend to over complicate things.

I then grabbed the mill controls and moved the head up and down and engaged the clutch etc....seemed easy enough to do from where I stood.

Only issues I see is seeing the measurement (it would have to be lowered to where I could see the height of the head etc when milling in the top half of a 20+" log) and walking passed the tire when operating but we realized that I could just have him mod the controls a little to give me extra reach so I had plenty of room to walk past the tire (wouldn't have to lean past it to keep control of the head)....basically extend the push bar by 12" or so and you're good to go.

I think I may do this -- and same some money.  Also means I could go with a smaller axle as suggested by others.

We're now looking at 4" channel with the mill bolted directly to the channel.

Also checked with WM and they still have plenty of the bed extensions (at $295ea) so I can pick up one of those (was hoping for a big sale since they changed the bed but I guess they sell a lot of them) and they have the LT15GO anti-rollback ramps for $99ea -- the savings on the smaller trailer design would pay for those and then some.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Channel may be fine, but, it will twist and rack out of plane with the other catty-corner.  4" box tube for the frame would be my choice. It's what we used, and, We have loaded logs that had no business being on our mill.

We have hauled our oversized LT40 type mill a jillion miles with mobile home axles. They have simple "puck" style magnetic brakes. 



 

[OlJarhead]

Even with the stands etc supporting the mill?

I was thinking that while in transit channel would be fine and when milling since it will be supported and not able to mill greater then 24" logs (and that is pushing it) that the channel should work.

Has to be stronger then 4x4 PT lumber after all.

[b dukes]

I built this base for my LT15 to set on. Soon as I can I will added all that is necessary to make it portable. It is built out of 2x5x 3/16 tubing. It has some bow in it as you can see in the pic. with no support ,  But when the saw frame is bolted on to the frame it should help reinforce it. Then with the leveling jacks I should be ok. Search a thread on here by Zopi , I think . His sawmill was hit and he fixed it , he has some good pics of the trailer for the 15GO with the sawmill off. Can't go wrong coping something that is proven to work.

[JohnSR]

Interesting project you have going. Reminds me of a few years ago when I purchased a mill from a company in Mountain Home Oregon and decided to build a trailer for it.  Great machine when it was set up like the factory stated but once I put it on a trailer, could not get a straight cut.

The trailer was a mobile home frame 20 feet long on which I bolted 2 ½ inch planks. The runners were 4 inch angle iron bolted to the planks. The eight stands were 3 inch square adjustable tubing, kind of like  LT28 has.

No matter how hard I tried to get it level, the track would have a bow in it. Was so disgusted with it I sold the mill. One good thing, I didn't have that much money tied up in the project except for the mill.

Now have the LT28 with all the goodies and couldn't be happier

[Fla._Deadheader]

Right now I have a 20' frame sitting in front of the shop. It was built with 8" "I" beams, and 6" box tube for cross members at 30" centers. I can step on one corner and watch the opposite corner on the far end go up and down.

Channel will do the same thing. It twists. Box tube can't without kinking.

[OlJarhead]

I built this base for my LT15 to set on. Soon as I can I will added all that is necessary to make it portable. It is built out of 2x5x 3/16 tubing. It has some bow in it as you can see in the pic. with no support ,  But when the saw frame is bolted on to the frame it should help reinforce it. Then with the leveling jacks I should be ok. Search a thread on here by Zopi , I think . His sawmill was hit and he fixed it , he has some good pics of the trailer for the 15GO with the sawmill off. Can't go wrong coping something that is proven to work.

This is what I'm wondering:  wouldn't the 2 1/2x4" angle iron bed of the mill help stiffen things up?

[Fla._Deadheader]

No.  ;D  Angle will twist, just like channel and "I" beam.  Besides, Box Tube should be less weight and less money.

We used 3/16" for the frame main tube, and 1/8" for the log bunks, reinforced with a small plate where the adjustment bolts went through. Used the short piece on the opposite side at 1/4", mostly because of the log loader mounted to it. Ours is a WoodMizer LT40-LT70 copy.

I can post a photo of the "I" beam,frame I described, earlier,  if it will help you.

[OlJarhead]

Having trouble finding a narrow enough axle assembly.  I know some of you mentioned making one.

I'll need something that is reliable enough for long road trips (250+ miles) and that I can put small tires on (smaller the better -- could use some suggestions there too).

The bed of the mill is just under 36" wide so the trailer frame will have to be a little less if I'm to just bolt the mill to the frame leaving the 1/2" overhang on each side for the mill head.

So I'm looking at a very narrow trailer to put an axle under.  My neighbor found one for $160 that's a 3500lbs axle, custom built, but thinks we'll have to use 14" tires with it for some reason....I'm waiting on a reply from him on those now.

Main issue is that I need to keep the bed low so I can walk beside the mill while operating it and not have it so high I can't raise the head all the way up to clear 24" logs.

[dgdrls]

Give this shop a try,  I believe a torsion axle would be a great solution
to keep your whole assembly lower to the ground and still allow you
to run taller tires which will trail better and roll easier over rough terrain

waiting to see where this goes as I own a 10 also

Best
DGDrls

http://www.trailerpart.com/halftorsionaxles.htm

[Fla._Deadheader]

Don't know prices these days, but, when we built the logging 3 axle trailer, and the mill, we bought complete MH axles for $100.00 each, including wheels, tires, springs and brakes. Just cut the center tube out, split that short section into 2 pieces and weld them on each side of the splice where you shorten the axle. just be SURE you get the "bow" of the axle on top. That's part of the suspension.

MH tires are 14.5".

[bill m]

Don't make your axle to narrow, it will make the trailer/mill very unstable going down the road. I would make it the same width as the factory ones from WM.

[Bill Gaiche]

My mill wheel width from outside to outside is 52". I have 13" wheels. I have pulled it 70 mph without any problems at all. bg