4-53 shuttering and losing power?

logman81 · November 04, 2012, 02:26:14 PM

Been working the skidder few days now on the job and noticed that once in awhile the motor seems to be shuttering like it's miss fireing and loses power? Does it mostly when it has been idling fore a bit while felling the trees. When given throttle of half or more it seems to go away for the most part. Could this be a sticking injector? Any info would be good.

SPD748 · November 04, 2012, 06:22:19 PM

I'd say a lazy injector. Let it idle a bit then check the temp at the exhaust manifold where it bolts to the head. I use a laser thermometer. If one is cooler than the rest, you've found the problem.

-lee

Ed_K · November 04, 2012, 06:45:28 PM

I put a saw wrench on the petal to keep it idled up a little to keep from loading up. Run it wide open,you aren't going to hurt it.Detroits run forever ;) .

logman81 · November 04, 2012, 07:20:00 PM

I forgot to mention that their is also a ticking sound coming from the motor not sure if it is part of the same problem? I'll get one of those and check it out thanks a bunch. Hope it's nothing to serious!

logman81 · November 05, 2012, 08:17:07 AM

If it is a bad injector can I keep using it to finish the job if I take it easy? Or should I think about bringing it to a mechanic to fix before damage is done?

What are the injectors in it n45's? If one is bad I might as well replace all and get the engine tuned up. If I wanted to get a little more hp out it by putting bigger injectors in it would this reduce longgevity and reliability of the engine? 8) Sorry about all the ?? but I want to make sure I don't do something wrong.

SPD748 · November 05, 2012, 09:43:04 AM

I've replaced a single injector where only one wasn't spraying correctly. I think they run ~$100 exchanged. As stated, if one injector isn't spraying properly or is 'dribbling' it will load up the air box with fuel. If the air box drains are blocked, this can cause major drama. As far as running it as is, I can't say. Whenever we've had a skipper, we've always replaced the bad injector in short order.

I agree with Ed, these engines really don't like idling.

-lee

logman81 · November 05, 2012, 04:19:00 PM

Spoke to a mechanic and he thinks it is a injector as well.

logman81 · November 06, 2012, 10:46:33 AM

Found a Detroit diesel dealership/service place the next town over from me so I will be giving them a call.

SPD748 · November 06, 2012, 10:48:25 AM

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

-lee

logman81 · November 06, 2012, 02:44:33 PM

Just got back from checking the temp on the exhaust manifold and all are within the same temps. Ran it for a bit pushing and grading out the landing and it didn't skip a beat? Maybe water or junck in fuel? I work it tomorrow not letting in idle for long periods and run it at a higher rpm.

lumberjack48 · November 06, 2012, 03:53:03 PM

If i let it idle longer then 2, 3 minutes i set the throttle at about 1000 rpm. If i knew it was going to be longer then 5 minutes i shut it off.

The thing is if theres still a loud ticking noise, theres a problem up on the rack, most likely a bad injector. If i replaced one i replaced all of them, but you can replace one with no issues. Have the mechanic come out an set the rack on it, he'll know if theres a bad injector.

I ran N50's in my S8 IH 3-53, we also set the rpm up, to compromise for the extra fuel. Everybody that heard it run said it wouldn't run a week. We ran it 3 yrs before we sold it with no problems. Theres a thing about running N50's in a Detroit with the forestry during the fire season, because of throwing sparks out of the exhaust [spark arrester required]

logman81 · November 06, 2012, 06:32:34 PM

I do agree it needs a tunning, but I will just have to run it the way it is and finish up on this job then it can be adjusted. I think I'm still a bit of a rookie with these two stroke deisels they don't like to idle long. What should it have for injectors n45? Will I gain a little hp with n50?

Weezer · November 07, 2012, 11:51:07 AM

Don't know how your engine is situated in there, but Detroit valve covers usually jump right off. If you don't see anything obvious, start her up and use your finger (carefully now!) to push down on the rockers / bridges. When the noise stops, you've found the offender. Look for busted valve springs too. I think the valve bridges had some sort of guide too, might have a sticker. I wouldn't wait too long, I've seen what dropped valves do, it ain't pretty. Its been years since I threw down the wrenches, but I always had a soft spot for D.D.s. I'd love to jam a 6-71 into my pickup just to hear her bark.

logman81 · November 09, 2012, 09:16:04 AM

Still have a problem with the motor. It is getting worse, and today I noticed black liquid coming from the cyl head where the exhaust manifold is? It's shuddering real bad and have almost no power and it's doing it more constantly.

Weezer · November 09, 2012, 10:02:35 AM

Is it coming from above/near the manifold or from a exhaust port gasket leak? If it's coming from the exhaust port DO NOT START IT! Check your oil level to see if it's high (fuel contamination). You may have lost an injector or a feed line. You risk a runaway or hydrolocking a cylinder. You need to address this before it turns into a nice boat anchor.
Hope it's something simple and cheap.

logman81 · November 09, 2012, 10:24:22 AM

It looks as if it is leaking where the manifold connects to the cly head.

logman81 · November 09, 2012, 10:29:27 AM

I fear it is a injector or somthing along that line as the oil is above the fill line.

mad murdock · November 09, 2012, 11:32:35 AM

Sounds like you need to pull injectors ASAP, drain oil and refill with new, as oil is diluted with fuel, I would also replace fuel filters before running it after installing overhauled injectors. If you try running it anymore you will probably junk out the engine.

logman81 · November 09, 2012, 11:55:53 AM

Your probly right, just what I wanted to pay to have it haul back home again for more repairs! Time to call the detroit mechanics and see what is going on.

snowstorm · November 09, 2012, 04:49:40 PM

if the jumper lines from the injector to head are leaking it will fill the base with fuel.

logman81 · November 10, 2012, 07:23:53 AM

I think it is most likely a fuel injector problem.

snowstorm · November 10, 2012, 07:45:58 AM

Quote from: logman81 on November 10, 2012, 07:23:53 AM
I think it is most likely a fuel injector problem.

you have fuel coming from the transfer pump to the ports in the head thru the jumper lines to the injector. same way with return fuel to tank. any fuel leak under the valve cover and it ends up in the base

lumberjack48 · November 11, 2012, 03:24:02 PM

Theres no reason to haul it home, fix it there

logman81 · November 11, 2012, 03:54:20 PM

Wish I could but the repair is beyond my skills. Plus I'm afraid of getting water or dirt in the engine once it is opened up. I have a nice warm shop with good lighting for the mechanic to fix it. How much hp will I gain with the N50 injectors? Will it smoke more than N45's?

lumberjack48 · November 11, 2012, 06:30:58 PM

The mechanic won't charge you anymore to come out to the job. It'll take maybe an hour or so to put new injectors and set exhaust valves.
I wouldn't even start your motor with out changing the oil, i'm hoping theres been no major damage already.

Not sure on hp gain with N50's, your mechanic should know off the top of his head how much you'll gain.

The thing is, is yours a 2 valve head or a 4 valve head. When i did this i had one of the best Detroit mechanic's in the country rebuilding my motor. I told him when i brought it in, i wanted as much hp as he could get out of a 3-53. The rebuild cost me $3200. this was 20 yrs ago, no corners cut. He said the motor was better than a new one, he smiled an said [She Runs] He estimated it 110+ hp, running 3200 rpm, we ran a straight pipe on it. With the Funk, 4 forward, 4 reverse, power shift it was a perfect match, fun, fun machine to run.