The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: black ash and sawlogs vs veneer  (Read 3084 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26970
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
Re: black ash and sawlogs vs veneer
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2012, 01:33:26 pm »
Jeff
In my experience, that is exactly (or as close as possible :) ) the way I've heard it happening for many years.
And maybe it was intentional, so the buyers couldn't be pinned down to a specific standard or rule. Keeps it a buyers market and the seller left holding the bag (log).

The veneer companies also had specific orders to fill, or veneer product to keep on hand for their veneer buyers - depending on markets.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Online Jeff

  • Fearless Leader
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 44972
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Harrison MI
  • Gender: Male
  • Proverbs 13:20
    • THEE Forestry Forum
Re: black ash and sawlogs vs veneer
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2012, 02:56:24 pm »
I might add though, invariably, it was usually always worth the effort to separate veneer than to saw it, as long as you accumulated enough before the age and elements degraded the logs to make it worth while for the buyer to buy them and to have them trucked.  Generally the buyers arranged the trucking, and when a truck came, it would usually be going to other mills or be already partly loaded from previous stops. Once the buyer bought the logs, he would stamp them with a plastic inventory tag that would keep track of the log until it got to where it was going and was processed.

I usually scaled the grade logs that came into the mill, and many times I worked with the Veneer buyers when they came. By working with, I mean I would turn the logs for them, and sometimes buck to a required length, or even end trim a log to give the buyer a better look at the end grain. Mny times a log's value was increased by cutting off part of it. I tried over the years to figure it out, and guess what they would take or not take, and although I had a general idea, I never could no for sure.

Veneer buyers changed often for the same companies. I always figured it was because they never had it figured out completely either and at some point paid to much for a whack of veneer and were replaced by the powers that be.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Bottle Washer.

Online chevytaHOE5674

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 2823
  • Location: Ontonagon Mi
  • Gender: Male
Re: black ash and sawlogs vs veneer
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2012, 03:45:12 pm »
The saw mill I bought for has its own veneer mills that we shipped to and we also sold veneer to Columbia and several other veneer mills in the a couple thousand mile radius.

The veneer mills (including our own) would get an order for XXX species so they would raise the price a tad and maybe relax the specs a bit to get more than enough volume to fill the order. Because invariably some logs that look perfect and look like veneer, once they hit the lathe turn into sawlogs or woodchips. Soo for a couple days while we were buying logs for a particular order we would buy up a lot of "maybe" logs just to have enough to fill the order. Once the order was filled (or lost in some cases) then our specs got a little more strict and prices dropped as we didn't want to keep a bunch of "maybe" veneer around on the off chance that we may have another order before the logs stained and deteriorated...

With species like Hard Maple and Red Oak those type of fluctuations weren't very common, because there is almost always a demand for the end product and it is easy to move. But with species like basswood, black/white ash, and cherry veneer mills don't always have buyers for the veneer so they hate to stock up on too much inventory. We liked to keep some of each species on hand so that we could fill small orders ASAP and also gives a start if/when a bigger order comes in. 

A prime example is we used to spin soft maple veneer for Gibson guitar on occasion. When we had an order we would by ugly soft maple logs as long as there was a 30" long clean on 4 face log with smooth bark. We used to push a fair number of #3 sawlogs into Gibson Veneer when we had an order. But if we didn't have an order there's no way it was anything other than a #3 sawlog. So that product and spec changed frequently. 

Offline SwampDonkey

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 35215
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Centreville, NB
  • Gender: Male
  • Large Tooth
Re: black ash and sawlogs vs veneer
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2012, 05:01:27 pm »
The buyers arranged the trucking from the marketing board. We actually had two concentration yards, one for each county of our board area. There was just one local guy doing the trucking who we know well. He trucked and cut wood for years and a woodlot owner. The specs we had were contractual to some degree, that is why specs could be more lenient as that was the buyers call there. But there was no going the opposite way with it, just pricing. We did have a change of buyers, but not because he didn't know his veneer. They bought hard maple and yellow birch and no figured wood. So I'm not sure what would change much on their end of product. Doesn't seem there was a whole lot of options. I know as far as what we sold, the only thing changing was price and demand from our perspective. The marketing board handed out the specs and prices to producers and that's just how it was.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry