Better To Split Wet or Dry? And Tree ID?

[plaindriver]

I admit, Im a neophyte as a country gent. Moved from the big city to rural paradise and it seems to suit me fine. But Im learning just how much I dont know. I have lotsa trees on the property, nearly all are hardwoods. I can recognize the maple, and oaks. Have another kind (dont know the type) with a kinda long oval shaped leaf. This one was in good shape, but a goodly bit of the root ball was uprooted, and the tree was listing probably 30° or so. So I cut it down. I wanted it to fall in the direction it was listing, so I didnt make the wedge cut in the front, just started cutting on the backside till it started making some cracking noises, and the ground vibrating. It was about 16" dia and I measured the main trunk afterwards, and it was 52' prior to branching. I cut it up into manageable sections and using a chain and my JD tractor, I dragged it to the splitter. Just did the bottom 10' trunk, as it split due to my unorthodox felling job. This stuff is heavy! I did about 18" section, and would split it into maybe 16 sticks. The splitter won every fight. But, Im wondering, is it better to dry logs first and split later, or split now and then let them dry?

2nd: Is there a idiots guide to tree ID? This particular tree seems to make a lot of long toothpicks when split. I am saving 3 of the long (10-12') sections for future milling. (Next item on the shopping list. I think the wife needs on for Christmas*).

[plaindriver]

 These Pics should have been incl in the previous post.



  

 

[beenthere]

Split it when convenient. With a splitter, makes little difference, other than to the weight.
And some reading of the ff will give you some good info to fell trees safely. A wedge that you left out would have helped avoid the trunk splitting, which can lead to injury.
a bore cut to establish the hinge and then cutting out to release the tree would be better method for safer felling.
Search on "bore cutting" for some good reading.

[stavebuyer]

The tree is hickory. Cutting a " heavy leaner" from the back without bore cutting the heart can get you killed. Hickory is great firewood but will rot quickly if left unsplit with the bark intact.

[stumper]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find a chainsaw safety class.  One with hands on training.

[thecfarm]

Not that it will help you in TN,but the local school is putting one on now. They have a bunch of evening classes from learning how to maintain a saw,cut trees down,welding, I forgot the others.
I would prefer to split it as soon as I could,I feel it dries better.
I have a nice book from the State Foresty Dept in Maine that I use.

[OlJarhead]

I split green whenever possible!  Of course, I do it by hand and that makes all the difference.  Splitting green with a good wedge head axe or maul is my choice always. 

Splitting seasoned wood is like splitting marble!  I hate it but I'll do it to stay warm

Old country saying:  Cold?  Split firewood and it will warm you twice.

Old Jarheads saying:  Cold?  Fall, De limb, Buck, Split and Stack firewood and it will warm you several times ;)

[OlJarhead]

I should add that all I have is Ponderosa Pine (not ideal at all), Fir (a little better) and Tamarack (best for me) in my area.  No hardwood at all.

Pine gives a lot less heat then Tamarack and can produce a lot of Creosote but I have a chimney brush and use it often.

Fir is about 10-20% better for firewood then the pine and Tamarack is 1 1/2 times better

[plaindriver]

Thanks to all for the sound advice. I just spent two hrs on you-tube, watching vid's of pro's felling trees. In retro, I VERY should have made the wedge cut first. I was just afraid that it might have weakened the tree too much, and promoted a premature falling. On me! There is sure a lot of good and interesting stuff on YT. Thanks again.

[levans]

plaindriver,
If you want some hands on some time let Me know, I'm in Jamestown just up hwy 127 from you and would be glad to help you out on chain saw use some time.

Larry

[John Mc]

One thing to keep in mind about videos on YouTube:  anyone can claim to be an expert.  The fact that they put something up on YouTube doesn't make them one.  I've seen some real disasters waiting to happen on YouTube tree felling videos.

[doctorb]

I am still interested in the title question of this thread.  Is it easier to split green wood than seasoned and, if it is or it isn't, why?

[beenthere]

If with a splitter, no appreciable difference in the "ease" to split, other than the weight of the piece if having to lift it to the splitter.

If splitting by hand, then likely splitting green is easier.

When I used to split by hand, I'd buck off blocks to length, and then turn all the blocks on end. Then if there was a time lapse getting around to splitting, the exposed end up would dry some, the other stay 'green'. When coming around to split with a maul, always was easier to turn those blocks end for end so the 'green' side was up ( ;) learned that from laying sod ya know ). The end grain dries out and seems to absorb the blows of the splitting maul moreso than the 'green' end that isn't dry.

[doctorb]

Interesting, beenthere.  I have some splipery elm, which should be tough to split anyway, which has been bucked into rounds and off the ground, but stacked for 1.5 years.  Will I notice a difference?  Will my splitter handle it anyway and should I stop cogitating over it?  Using your explanion, both ends are dry  :D :D ;D

[Migal]

 ;) My experience, With a double bit axe Hickory splits easier dry. Hydraulic splitter either way. Sure would like to see a close up of the leave's My eyes see a lot of oak shaped ones.  :-\

[beenthere]

With splitter, I doubt it will, at most, be do no more than a slight hiccup as the wedge enters the wood. Past the very end fibers, the blocks are still green. I'd be real surprised if any hassle at all.

[thecfarm]

The way my Father showed us was to read the stick. Look for the longest,widest crack. also split with the way the tree grows,big end down,if you can tell. Keep away from a limb of any rough spot too. Some will say frozen wood split better. But we was splitting in the summer so the wood would dry for the heating season.

[OlJarhead]

Green wood is easier to split in my experience.  Dry/seasoned wood has less water in it (a lot less) and is harder so when you hit it with your ax it won't sink in a deeply.

I can mow through wet pine, fir or tamarack when its wet, when its dry I might take 3 times longer to split a cord!

[JohnW]

You ask will it split easier if green?  Funny, I never considered that question.  When I cut a tree, I want to get the wood off the ground.  I think it's easier to handle after it's split.  That is, it's easier to put in my wheel barrow or put in my pickup truck and haul.

[stavebuyer]

Relative to the ease of splitting for green vs dry, I always felt both hickory and white oak split easier when dry. Both species tend to be "stringy" when green. Those "strings" that hold the split pieces together like glue will eventually dry out and get brittle. When I used to split evrything by hand I would quarter the blocks for easier handling and then re-split after the blocks dried for a while.

[Ljohnsaw]

  Sure would like to see a close up of the leave's My eyes see a lot of oak shaped ones.  :-\

I saw the leaves as well, it sure looks like white oak to me, even the bark.  Though, I've never seen a hickory...

Say, does hickory make good timber joint spikes?  Maybe you could go into the spike making business.  They go for a buck or so a piece on eBay!

[Al_Smith]

What you had there on that leaner is a classic "barber chair " .You have to watch that because the end can split  out and either slide off backwards or flip over itself and remove your head from your shoulders .

In addition to using a bore cut it's often helpfull to bind the bottom with a stout log chain and binder .

If you are dealng with green hickory or maple you'll do better if you get it split rather than let it lie in rounds .Both woods will be growing mushrooms if you let it go too long before you split it .

Now nobody said you have to do it all in one fell swoop .So maybe you split a half a cord and call it a day .Before too long you have the whole thing done .

[beenthere]

In addition to using a bore cut it's often helpfull to bind the bottom with a stout log chain and binder .

And that binder would be just above the felling cuts.  ;)

A good safe guard on leaners.

[Bill]

When I started ( some years back ) my buddy advised me to split it as soon as you could - his goal was to get it dried for burning and according to him it dries faster when split.

Course he has a splitter - I still use an orange  " Monster Maul " all steel behemoth for smaller jobs - my buddy will share for bigger jobs .

I'm not very partial to elm - iffen I happen upon it I try to cut it " extra " short so I can split it - though it burns just fine .

Good Luck either way

[SwampDonkey]

That old rock maple this past April we took down in the yard would just spit the maul right back out on the recoil. :D Had to start it with the chainsaw making groves to quarter up the 200 lb rounds. Then took them quarters onto the splitter. Still split devilish hard on some. :D Destroyed the neighbors home made splitting wedge in 3 pieces. Had to go to town to get a good Garant splitting maul and hammer away with a post maul. :D

[JuniperBoss]

Seasoned wood has always been easiest for me to split. Really, it's impossible to split green out here in the desert. Maybe it's different with hardwoods? Softwoods I believe are tougher to split when green, and Juniper I know is tough as can be. You'll sweat all day for a cord of split wood (by hand).
     I've got to be honest, I don't see why that method of felling a tree is so hazardous. I clear cut over 15 acres of thick forest in a canyon. Many of the trees were leaning. I just like to dig right into the back (uphill) side of the tree and it always falls right where it's leaning and I have never had 1 issue. No back-cut or anything. Maybe I'm just wild and reckless but It's worked for me so far.

[JohnW]

Seasoned wood has always been easiest for me to split. Really, it's impossible to split green out here in the desert. Maybe it's different with hardwoods? Softwoods I believe are tougher to split when green, and Juniper I know is tough as can be. You'll sweat all day for a cord of split wood (by hand).
     I've got to be honest, I don't see why that method of felling a tree is so hazardous. I clear cut over 15 acres of thick forest in a canyon. Many of the trees were leaning. I just like to dig right into the back (uphill) side of the tree and it always falls right where it's leaning and I have never had 1 issue. No back-cut or anything. Maybe I'm just wild and reckless but It's worked for me so far.

I agree that softwood can be tough to split.  I tried it one time.  It sort of absorbs your splitter, instead of splitting.

The danger in cutting a heavily leaning tree, comes from cutting downhill, not uphill.  This would not be a danger with a small tree.  If you put a notch in the downhill side of a leaner, then start the backcut on the uphill side, most likely, before you get to the 3" hinge, the tree will suddenly split vertically, right up the middle for 20' or 30', and fall.  The spit part will go flying past the cutter as the tree falls, and that would be a killer if it hit you.

[OlJarhead]

Seasoned wood has always been easiest for me to split. Really, it's impossible to split green out here in the desert. Maybe it's different with hardwoods? Softwoods I believe are tougher to split when green, and Juniper I know is tough as can be. You'll sweat all day for a cord of split wood (by hand).
     I've got to be honest, I don't see why that method of felling a tree is so hazardous. I clear cut over 15 acres of thick forest in a canyon. Many of the trees were leaning. I just like to dig right into the back (uphill) side of the tree and it always falls right where it's leaning and I have never had 1 issue. No back-cut or anything. Maybe I'm just wild and reckless but It's worked for me so far.

Funny, I never had that problem but then maybe because I'm splitting either green trees (easy for me with a maul and good axe) or dead trees that are still standing (hard as marbel)...the dead standing trees are best because they are ready to burn pretty much but they are a bare to split by hand!  Hard as rocks!

[JuniperBoss]

Dead and dry standing trees I do believe are difficult to split. However, dry rounds are the easiest thing for me to split, because the sun has beaten on it and all the water is gone, but there are no forces keeping the wood together. This is why they are cracked and have good faults to plunge an ax into. But dead standing trees are compact and have no cracks because it's just one big solid chunk of compact wood. The wood isn't cut and open to dry, so it is like a compact, dry, piece of concrete, and it will remain that way because the water is gone and the wood cannot morph when it is already seasoned.

[OlJarhead]

Aha!  Great explanation!

[JuniperBoss]

Why thank you OlJarhead, I feel so uplifted... and smart...  :P

[beenthere]

I find our hardwoods to be easier splitting when green. Then again, unsplit they will only dry some minor amount on the ends so splitting "dry" is a mute point.

If my rounds are left for a period of time, I stand them on end so only the exposed end dries out.
Then when splitting by hand, turn them end for end and split them from the wet end. This way, I find the splitting maul doesn't bounce off the wood.

Maybe different for Juniper.

[SwampDonkey]

Dry hard maple will just cause your maul to bounce and spring like a kangaroo. It was hard enough to split the one in the yard green. Had to bust it up into quarters to get it onto the splitter. Ever try lifting 200 lb 34" diameter rounds onto a splitter? Not for me. I don't lift on noth'n over 25 lbs if I can help it. Unless it's a sac of taters. :D

[Migal]

 ;) Oak is easier green sweet gum is the devil  :P Soft woods are soft anytime jmo

[WDH]

SD,

I guess that you are not going to be able to lift that 50# bag of grits that I sent you  .

[SLawyer Dave]

From my experience, the type of tree makes a huge difference in the answer.  The answer is even more important if you are splitting by hand.  I very highly recommend getting a "monster maul", or one with a very large wedge face that is going to both transfer the maximum shock into the wood to start the grain splitting, and to prevent it from getting stuck in the wood.  I have traditionally split about 90% of my firewood by hand.

Hardwoods should always be split when they are green.  The higher moisture content of the wood actually "carries" the  pressure wave of the maul hitting through the wood and helps split it open.  If allowed to season, the wood actually shrinks, becoming more dense, and resistant to splitting.  Your maul will tend to "bounce" on the wood, rather than sinking into it.

Softwoods (at least those here on the West Coast), are generally much easier to split by hand after they season.  If splitting when wet, the soft wood tends to turn mushy when hit by the maul, and while your maul will sink into the wood, it doesn't split along the grain.  The maul just sticks in there.   After seasoning, the soft wood fiber becomes more dense, and so when the maul strikes, rather than mushing, it actually pushes the wood apart, splitting it down the grain.

Even with a splitter, if you are dealing with large rounds, it is often times easier to split them in half or quarters by hand so that they are easier to handle.  Hope that helps.

[SwampDonkey]

In winter time I used to cut yellow birch and hard maple in my youth and bring it home on a sled. All down hill, makes a sled rather heavy. :D Would take my axe and a maul and split the log full length for 6-8' what ever the length was. It was straight grained. Once you got started it split easily and I would have two almost perfect halves. ;D Made axe handles and paddles. Sometime I'll have to get a picture of the paddles, if I can find a set. Stuff tends to walk and never come back. :D

[OlJarhead]

Why thank you OlJarhead, I feel so uplifted... and smart...  :P

Hey I'm serious!  I just never thought of that and it makes perfect sense.  So all the while I'm jumping up and down and stomping my feet over splitting green (ok maybe not that bad) I now understand why that may be totally wrong.

Though, if it is easier to split the seasoned pine then heck, my 2 1/2 yr old grandson ought to be able to! muhahahaha