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Tractor around the sawmill advice needed

Started by Clean Image, October 25, 2012, 02:12:45 AM

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Clean Image

Hey Guys

I bought my Ford 861 with a FEL with the intention of doing some work on the new place as we build...mainly around the mill loading logs on the rack and moving stacks of lumber in place afterward. Maybe some landscape construction work too, but I sure didn't have visions of it doing the work of a skid steer or loader.


 

My problem is this, with the weight of the FEL and a lack of power steering, turning isn't much of an option! (and it needs to be)
If I was in the business of needing equipment designed to load full time-all the time...I wouldn't have considered the Ford, but this tractor is for personal/hobby use only and a good part of the attraction was just the history if this machine and the era in which it was used. I've actually started the restoration process so it looks a bit different at the moment...since this pic I have it on blocks with the fenders and all four wheels removed.


 

The front idler arms were both bent so I am replacing those along with new bushings and drag links. I'm hoping this will help but was told by both parts houses these tractors were just designed for agriculture work and not all that weight up front so I shouldn't even consider adding PS...and finding the time to fabricate all that would be near impossible for me too right now. 

I have a couple of options, the first being rebuild the front end like I am doing, add a 500lb ballast box on the rear (it already has wheel weights) and hope this will help counter balance some of the weight up front. This will take a lot more work cause I would probably rebuild the hydraulics too and have to paint the frame and "I really need to focus on building the house" says my better half! :D

The other is to scrap the FEL all together and use the 3-pt to load logs on the rack and move some stacks around the mill and maybe a few boulders when it comes time to landscape. When I pulled the front end off to start the restoration I drove it around the yard for a bit and it worked great and was actually a lot of fun.

Either way I will need to check the steering box too to make sure its not the source of resistance on the steering issue. 

Thanks in advance for any advice anyone can offer...it will be much appreciated!

Duane

hackberry jake

I have a newer 30hp kubota that I use around the mill. When I get a lot of weight on the loader, it doesn't wan to turn either(it helps if you are in motion). Wheel weights don't take any weight off of your front end. They do however make it harder to lift up the rear when too much weight is on the front(think teeter totter and the front axle is the fulcrum). I added a 55 gallon drum full of concrete to the rear of mine and it helped a LOT! take a drum, cut just holes just big enough to put a draw bar through it around the center. Weld the draw bar to the drum(just tacks will work). Weld a bracket for the third arm near the top of the barrel. Mine just uses a foot long piece of flat iron for the third arm. It doesn't have to be adjustable. Full the barrel with concrete and whalla! Ballast! Putting a heavy implement on the rear does the same thing but you lose clearance. I would reccomend a set of forks for the front(very handy). Be careful not to add too much weight hanging off the back of your tractor and try to climb hills, it will rare up on you. I hope this helps  8)
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EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Chuck White

Congratulations on finding that old classic.

Only thing about them is the lack of weight.  That tractor will not pick up a very big log without the rear end coming off the ground, so please be careful!

For general sawmill work, it'll be fine for jobs like moving slabs, sawdust and pushing logs!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

ladylake

 Those Ford's aren't very good loader tractors , the front wheels are to far back and the loader is out front too far. Wieght hanging on the 3 point would help a lot 1000# or so or get a set of forks for the 3 point with a hydraulic  cylinder top link would work good.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

weisyboy

have you considered doing a hydraulic steering mod?

its not that hard we did it to one of our tractors that had a fel put on it.

i can find the instructions if you like
god bless america god save the queen god defend new zealand and thank christ for Australia
www.weisssawmilling.com.au
http://www.youtube.com/user/weisyboy?feature=mhee
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WoodenHead

+1 to Weisboy's suggestion of hydraulic steering/hydraulic assist mod.  If you are carrying any significant weight regardless of how well you are ballasted, it will be very difficult to turn.  But at the end of the day though, carrying the weight of logs and other heavy loads will tax the tractor steering components and wheel hubs beyond what they were meant to handle.  The 3pt hitch may be a better way to go.

I have a 45HP Kubota backhoe with a 2000# loader.  A 24" diameter by 16' pine log is all that it can lift.  Going over a mild bump and I can "feel" that I'm at the limit of what the tractor/loader/steering can take.  If your logs are generally small or short then the FEL (with hydraulic steering) could work, but otherwise I would suggest the 3pt hitch.

thecfarm

That old ford looks good!!! I have a NAA,1954. Yours is a little big heavier. But kinda the same front end as the NAA. I don't use it now at all. Just sits in the shed,waiting for me to get it out again. Those Fords were not really made for a loader,IMO. They was designed to pull something.Probably after you fix the front end, and use it for a while,the same problems will come back at a later date. I have not driven other tractors with out power steering,but I would think with a loader and whatever is on-in the loader.it would be hard to turn no matter what.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

chevytaHOE5674

Adding ballast to the 3pt will help some. Adding power steering will also help some. Both are going to allow you to lift more weight and potentially damage the front axle. I have an 800 and a 900 series ford that I've picked up dirt cheap as they were broken from having loaders on them. One had a broken front steering "knee" on it and the other the pivot pin for the front axle had torn loose from the mount under the motor. So be careful as those tractors weren't designed for loaders.

bandmiller2

Removing the bucket and adding light forks will help.Those tractors don't have a tie rod and really the only way to have power steering is to put the whole steering box power unit on them.Use it til you find something better then use the old girl without the loader around the farm.I had an old 57 international utility with a loader no PS would use loader down pressure to lift the front wheels then spin them around to change direction. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Clean Image

Thanks Guys...as much as I would like to keep the FEL I think it just is too much for this girl :( Just the fact that I'm having to rebuild the front end at this time is evidence of that.

Any idea how high up a 3-pt set of pallet forks will lift a load? I would need to set my logs on a deck about 24" off the ground...I could also raise the ground in between the deck rails to safely lift the tractor up a foot or so if that helps...

WRC shows up to be one of the lightest woods in the tool box calculator...most of these are around 20" and a 16' is still less than 1,000lb



  

 

beenthere

I'd move up to something that is 4wd and built to handle a FEL. 

And add ballast to act as a counterweight balancing a load on the FEL (wheel weights and fluid will not remove any load from the front suspension).

A set of forks that will quickly be moved from the FEL to the 3pt, along with a bucket to move dirt and sawdust around will give plenty of flexibility to run your operation. The tailing of the mill with the forks to move lifts of lumber with the forks will be added benefits. Keep the old Ford for the chores that it can do very well (I like them for dragging logs and working in the woods) but there are limits there as well, as with any piece of equipment. Sooner, not later, we find those limits and work within them, or repair often, or upgrade to bigger and better.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

captain_crunch

don't take much to be better than what I started with

This was next

Just be CAREFUL as not to get log over bucket and in your lap :'( that is why the horns on my forks. Never done it personaly but the one guy I knew of doing it now drives a wheel Chair
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

captain_crunch

M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

weisyboy

i have 2 sets of rear forks, one will only lift as high as the 3pt linkage, and the otehr will lift double it uses a wire rope system to double the lift AS YOU LIFT THE FORKS, you can also get sets with a telescopic boom like a fork lift.
god bless america god save the queen god defend new zealand and thank christ for Australia
www.weisssawmilling.com.au
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flyboy16101

The 861 was rated at about 40 belt hp which I think would be enough to load most logs. The neighbor just put a powersteering kit on his 801 and so far he is very happy with it. I think it ran around $800. The ballist box is a great addition and along with loaded tires with wheels weights to keep the back end down if you have strong enough hydralics. The pallets forks also make a big difference in what size logs I can lift compared to the clamp on forks I use to use on my bucket. But if your doing a lot of material moving and landscaping I think you would regret not having the loader I know I would miss mine if I didn't have it any more.
Wood-mizer Lt35, International 504 w/ loader, Hough HA Payloader, Stihl Ms290, Ms660, LogRite Cant Hook

Bibbyman

I should probably keep my opinion to myself but..  In my opinion a small farm tractor is total inadequate for work around a mill – other than maybe move sawdust and rake down ruts etc. 

A front end loader on any farm tractor, especially an older two wheel drive,  is an adaption to make it a convenient wheelbarrow.  Even if you weight it down to keep the butt on the ground, you'll find you've overloaded the front axle, tires, etc.

We used a much heavier tractor – AGCO 4660 with FWA and loader for a number of years.  Even though it was weighted and would lift some 3,000 lbs, it was quite cumbersome and too many times dangerous. 




 

We broke the center hubs out of the front wheels a number of times.  The tractor is retired to do what a tractor does,  in our case, bushhog and blade road.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

bandmiller2

For around mills think industrial,articulating loaders are best but there are many old straight frame FWD loaders like Hough,Michigan,Pettibone est. that can be had for less than many of the small cutesy farm tractors.With forks they will pick up 2 or 3 logs at a time or some huge logs,their heavy and stable. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

pineywoods

Front end loaders on the old fords and similar iron are bad news. There's just a thin casting to attach the front axle to the front end of the engine block. the spindles aren't adequate to carry anything more than the tractor itself. Forks on the 3 pt are a better deal. this is on a small yanmar tractor and works well to support a norwood mill. A hydraulic top link makes it even more useful. Not my tractor, belongs to a neighbor...



 
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

thecfarm

Bibbyman,and I thought I was rough on my tractor. I do use mine some for log lifting,but for every log I lifted I bet I have 50 rocks that I have lifted too and hauled down into the woods. Some rocks was just about all the tractor wanted to pick up too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Bibbyman

The front wheels are 10x24", as I remember.  The hub centers are about 3/8" thick.  They cracked and were welded up a couple of times.   We tried to buy new centers but they were not available as AGCO had replaced them with a new design.  The new design required new rims that required new tires.  Even the lug bolts and washers changed!  It was going to cost thousands.

We had new centers made at a machine shop out of harder steel and welded in at a welding shop.  Although we don't use it to move logs and lumber, we still use it and the hubs have held up.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Clean Image

FOR SALE:
Only used once by current owner... ;)


 

I asked for advice and also figured I would get a confirmation of what I already suspected...this thing is a beast full of strength but also a lot of weight and not really designed for the iron it was mounted on for what I was trying to do (or the previous owner).
Keeping it on there would just have frustrated me every time I used it so thanks for the guidance and to all that took the time to help.

Of course this opens new possibilities...first to just put a set of forks on the back...or maybe get the cutting torch out and see how I might be able to configure this thing into a three point attachment.  8)


 
I acquired one for some work I did for a customer and didn't really have a use for it till maybe now. The model I have has a lifting capacity of #2000lb and only goes up about 60"...I'll post pictures whatever I do...thanks again guys for the help!

bandmiller2

All this said,I do use an old JD-60 around my circular mill with a modified JD-45 w loader.I beefed up the loader and have adjustable forks and down pressure.It will lift well over one ton with good reach.Relief valve is set to bypass before rear wheel even think about leaving ground.An advantage to being a "flatlander" no hills or slopes to contend with.Not ideal but I've lived with Johnny for over 40 years.If it won't lift a log I'll shorten it or buck it to firewood.PS never had to buck one up. You use what you have but with great care and common sence. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

tcsmpsi

Certainly, I can drag a lot more than I can lift with the FEL.  It is ok for smaller lifting, but for larger, I drag to the deck ramp, and roll on to the deck.

I only have the one small Kubota, but it is small for reasons of small footprint through the woods and around the place.



 
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

haywire woodlot

This is my evolution of log handling equiptment, I srarted out slinging logs with the old case terratrac, using end tongs chained to the bucket. I can lift a log by tilting the bucket up so the cutting edge is against the log held held tight by chains. works pretty slick and keeps the log from swinging around. Sorry I don't have a picture of it in use.

Lately we aquired an older hitachi ex-60, it has a live thumb and is about the handiest thing to have around the mill. Especially if you load a log with the log stops down. :)

Dave

dboyt

I can only lift about 600 pounds with my old 8N, and with manual steering, it is tough to handle a full load.  This hedge log pretty much maxes me out.  I have a winch on the back which makes for good ballast.  Anything I can't lift, I pull-- usually with a log arch, then winch onto my portable sawmill, like tscmpsi.  I rented a skid steer a couple of months ago.  Those things will spoil you!  I'm on the lookout for a 4wd in the 50 hp range.  Articulated would be nice!

Haywire, have you thought about a putting a grapple on that Hitachi?



 
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

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