clark 664 starting

rockwall · October 22, 2012, 08:11:12 AM

I have a clark ranger 664 with fairly new batteries, rebuilt starter and cleaned up connections. When I go to start it by turning main power switch on, key on and then hit the starter button, sometimes it turns right over, other times when I hit the button it just clicks(once) and I can see a slight power draw on ammeter and doesn't engage the starter. It usually will turn over eventually but sometimes it might take a dozen or more pushes on starter button. Any suggestions?

OntarioAl · October 22, 2012, 09:47:06 AM

rockwell
The contactors on the high current side of the selenoid are not making contact due mainly to eroison caused over time by electrical arcing.
It will only get worse as the weather gets colder.
The fix is a binary decison either purchase a rebuilt solenoid or take it apart
and clean up the contactors and shim them up to compensate for the lost metal.
I have done this many times with my Detoit diesels when I was logging.
Hope this helps
Al

rockwall · October 22, 2012, 10:00:59 AM

Thanks Al, sounds like a good thing to do. When you say shim the contactors up, how exactly would you do that? Thanks

oldseabee · October 22, 2012, 10:10:31 AM

Once you get the solenoid apart you will see what to do. If you aren't confident then, go for a new solnoid.

rockwall · October 26, 2012, 07:15:40 AM

I had my starter rebuilt and it looks like a new solenoid on the starter(or rebuilt), it looks all shiny and new. It still might take quite a few pushes on the starter button to get it to turn over. What should I check next? I would really like it to turn over first hit on the button.

pigpen · October 26, 2012, 10:30:19 AM

have you replaced the switch in which you press to start the skidder? If not, there is a way to start the skidder with a screw driver, file, chainsaw wrench, etc. Not sure if you can see the starter well or not when in the machine, but if you take and cross the two large terminals on the selenoid the starter should crank. NOT the safest way in the world, but works in a pinch. If you wanna test the selenoid itself, cross the small terminal the (mine only has 3 wires going to it, some have 4. If you have 4, you must determine which one comes from the switch.) large terminal that has the wire coming from the battery(usually the terminal farthest from the starter on the selenoid), the engine WILL crank if the selenoid is good. This will tell you if you have a bum new selenoid or it is in your wiring/switch. I have a friend that has a 664 clark with a 353, I move it for him, and he has the same exact issue with his... I will ask him to see what he knows about it. Good Luck!!! ;)

graves logging · October 26, 2012, 03:54:08 PM

I have a 664 as well with a new starter and it does the same thing. I just keep clicking til it starts

lumberjack48 · October 26, 2012, 04:25:02 PM

I had one do this, about drove me crazy. I finely found it, i had the wife hold the starter button in while i moved cables an wires trying to find the problem.
When i moved the hot cable to the solenoid it started, here where the wire hooks in the eye was bad. The cable was green in side, i cut it off, cleaned the end out, slipped it back on the battery cable, gave it a couple taps with a hammer, put some tape on it, hooked back on to the solenoid, good to go.

Most of the time when mine clicked, one of the battery posts had wet film on it.

pigpen · October 27, 2012, 03:21:02 AM

Well, talked to my friend today and he said that his is starter is usually full of grease and oil when this happens, but the last time it happened was exactly what lumberjack48 posted last... he also added that if by chance you threw a deep cycle marine battery in it, throw it out! It will wreck your selenoid from the low voltage that they put out. So, long story short, my conversation with him was to check all connections, and also cables,( his is doing this same thing right now due to small or weak cable) make sure both batteries are fully charged, and if that checks out, then its your switch or selenoid. Good Luck! I need to take a nap so I can get up tomorrow am and run the green machine, Hopefully we finish the small job we started last saturday. 8)

rockwall · October 27, 2012, 02:26:30 PM

Thanks for all the great replies. I have a friend who has the same problem with his 664 and he sings to his machine. I don't know if that really works or not. I think i will clean up all cables again, I have replaced the button a while ago and of course yesterday I went to start it and BANG first hit on the button and she started.

rockwall · November 01, 2012, 07:00:14 AM

So I decided to clean all connections at the starter which has a solenoid sitting on top of it. I then discovered two wires leading from solenoid terminals to what looks like another solenoid(much like a solenoid on an old Ford truck) mounted on the engine block , just to the left and below the starter. There is probably a 14 gauge yellow wire (broken) which looks like it should be connected to a very small terminal not the two larger ones and it goes into the wire harness. What is it ? I doubtit is working since the yellow wire is broken or cut at terminal.

Holmes · November 01, 2012, 07:24:15 AM

I had a ground problem that had the same symptoms. Removing the ground cable from the block and grinding clean the engine block location, and cable connecter solved the problem . Another piece of equipment has 2 ground cables, battery to frame and engine block to frame. The block to frame was installed on top of the new paint. The starter did not work well,low voltage, I replaced the starter then found the ground problem. A diesel mechanic told me most of the electrical problems he has are due to poor ground.

rockwall · November 01, 2012, 08:41:47 AM

So here it is, is it another solenoid?

beenthere · November 01, 2012, 10:17:05 AM

Looks like it. And when the yellow wire cut off is energized, likely the solenoid connects the two larger wires.
Energize it and see if you hear it "connect".
Trace the two larger wires to see where they lead. Rather apparent that they must contribute to something 'important'.

oldseabee · November 01, 2012, 01:14:33 PM

Some of these machines came with emergency steering system that would kick in if you lost power to the main hydraulic system due to engine quitting or pump failure. This system sensed a failure and would energise the solenoid that you picture and that would energise and electric motor with a pump attached to feed the steering valve long enough to get the machine stopped or kill the battery

rvolek · November 01, 2012, 01:54:32 PM

You can also check the main master switch. Mine went bad on my 450 dozer. I just bypassed the master and was good to go till I got it replaced. Just a thought.

rockwall · November 01, 2012, 04:25:39 PM

Cleaned up the connections at solenoid, took extra solenoid out and BANG she fired first hit of the button. Thanks

Andrew Lawrence · November 04, 2012, 02:29:11 PM

(The second solenoid ), main battery power in, where does the out power go? Maybe to the pre-heater on intake? try A test light on small lead wire and run switches to see what is suppose to activate that second solenoid. (Main start solenoid)Test light on small lead Will test the start button.